Six-week trip to Mexico
FR

Translated into English.

NI Nimou74 Veteran ·
This travel journal is still so amazing. I'm loving it. Thanks! 🙂
« Voyager rend modeste. Vous voyez quelle petite place vous occupez dans le monde. » - Gustave Flaubert https://www.myatlas.com/anneclaire95
GE GeorgesOZ Globetrotter ·
Still as amazing this travel journal. I'm loving it. Thanks! 🙂

Thanks Anne-Claire! That's really nice of you to say. 🙂
MI Michant Veteran ·
Neil Young et Cortés - Romantic distortions

Your analysis of the "romantic distortions" about Mexico really resonated with me, especially the current "Tibetomania" that, in the wake of Tibet’s recent misfortunes, has turned it into some kind of Himalayan Buddhist Eden.

There’s no question that China’s occupation of Tibet, the brutal repression, and the forced sinicization it has endured—leading to what’s been called a "cultural genocide"—must be strongly condemned.

But hasn’t it been forgotten that, until it fell into the hands of the Chinese PLA in 1950, Tibet was an extraordinarily backward and brutal feudal society? The vast majority of the population was reduced to serfdom and silence, dominated by the overwhelming power of lamas who grew rich at the expense of their peasants and waged war among themselves.

I hope I won’t get torn apart by the ghost of Alexandra David-Néel… 🤪
GE GeorgesOZ Globetrotter ·
lamas who grew rich at the expense of their peasants and waged war against each other?

Warring lamas—doesn’t sound very Buddhist, tut tut tut!

I have Buddhist affinities, but the naivety of some who only see "all beautiful, all kind" really gets on my nerves. What can you say when you see the repressive attitude in Myanmar against non-Buddhist minorities? The silence of the Buddhist majority is deafening.

Similarly, the rampant practice of "tamboun" in Thailand, which results in the enrichment of monks.

PS: Popes were sometimes warlords in medieval Europe. And let’s not even talk about wealth!
GE GeorgesOZ Globetrotter ·
Romantic Distortions (Again)

After that detour through Asia, let’s get back to Mexico. Or at least, get a little closer. I was talking about the romanticization of Indigenous peoples "of all feathers." There’s another striking example: the romanticization of the Sioux in the well-known film *Dances with Wolves* by Kevin Costner. The movie was praised for flipping the old "good whites – bad Indians" equation of classic films. It was celebrated for its cultural, historical, and aesthetic value.

Sure, sure, but there’s criticism.

One issue with Costner’s approach is that the Sioux are portrayed as "beautiful and kind," while the Pawnees who appear in the film are "ugly and evil." All historical accounts describe the Pawnees as victims of the Sioux (who were far more powerful). The Sioux are also heroic, while 3 out of 4 Pawnees are cowardly.

This black-and-white portrayal is frustrating and, in my opinion, detracts from the film’s value.

It was appreciated that Indigenous roles were given to Native American actors. But that’s only partially true. Only the main one of the 4 Pawnees in question is played by a Native American (Wesley Studi, who is Cherokee—he excels in unsympathetic Indigenous roles). The other 3 are clearly white actors.

The film’s hero, played by Kevin Costner, is an American officer named John Dunbar, who integrates into a Sioux tribe. The real-life John Dunbar was a missionary… among the Pawnees!

When the hero expresses his admiration for the Sioux, one of their qualities he highlights is being very "family oriented" ("centrés sur la famille"). It’s such a modern (Anglo-Saxon) expression that it really rings false.

Kevin Costner himself has Cherokee ancestry (a drop or two of blood)—he could’ve done better.
AQ Aquilegia Globetrotter ·
Let's overlook the odd use of "lay" (past tense of "to lie") which means "lay". Why not "stood" = "was, stood"?

Because "On the shore lay Montezuma" sounds better to the ear than "stood" in English (my native language). "Lay" isn’t always literal. Anyway, song lyrics are poetry.
FR Frmi31 Veteran ·
Don't mix up the Maya, Aztecs, and the various Native American tribes from the USA!
Le Mexique pour toujours après de nomb Les chiens aboient la caravane passe
GE GeorgesOZ Globetrotter ·
Cholula – Museum and (more) geography

We took a big detour through Tibet and the great prairies of North America. 😉 No surprise there, since a real trip always opens thematic doors to other journeys (including virtual ones). I’ll admit I’m fond of a few good digressions, especially these days when we have to spend almost all our time at home. We’ve got the time!

I left you at the top of the Cholula pyramid. Well, we finally tear ourselves away from gazing at Popocatépetl. The tickets we bought include a visit to the museum. We find the museum at the northeast corner of the pyramid. The young man at the reception tells us no, we’re not at the right museum—this is the Regional Museum of Cholula. But no worries, entry is free, he says with a big smile. 🙂 Since we’re here, let’s check it out!

The ground-floor rooms cover Cholula’s geography. Ah, just the kind of thing that grabs me! We’re told that during the Cretaceous period, there was only a sea where Mexico is today. You could’ve gone from the Atlantic to the Pacific without a hitch. Good thing Ferdinand Vicomte de Lesseps wasn’t born yet—he’d have been out of a job! 😉

I’ve touched on this before when we took the flight from Mexico City to Villahermosa and flew over the mountains of the "Mexican Volcanic Axis," an important west-east geological feature. This volcanic axis is caused by the subduction of the Cocos tectonic plate under the North American plate. The subduction starts along the Pacific coast of southern Mexico, hundreds of kilometers to the south, but the slope of the Cocos plate’s "dive" northward is gentle, so volcanic activity shows up much farther away. This activity is relatively recent (it only started 25 million years ago).

The volcanic range is considered the geological divide between North America and Central America. I fiddled with the photos taken at the museum to show this clearly. I added yellow dashed lines to mark the projection axis corresponding to the cross-section showing the main volcanoes (numbered 1 to 10). I also added the locations of the cities we visited—plus Veracruz on the Caribbean coast for its historical importance. Finally, the inset shows the position of this central zone of Mexico at the scale of the whole country, clearly distinguishing the two important geographical areas: Mexico City straddles North and Central America. Admit it—that’s not common!

And now everyone understands why VF’s Destinations tab lists Mexico under two different categories!

All that, plus this great photo of a Mexican farmer standing in front of Popocatépetl with his donkey, wearing the famous Mexican sombrero—mythical sombreros that I don’t think anyone wears anymore these days.

Upstairs, the museum features a superb collection of pre-Columbian artifacts, mostly Aztec and Cholultec pieces. It’s a Cholula museum: it takes care to point out that Cholula had its own distinct cultural identity. And it’s mentioned with obvious pride that Moctezuma ate from Cholula’s polychrome pottery!

There’s this group of three people bursting into laughter—something I hadn’t seen before. Usually, these cultures seem pretty severe. These pieces come from the Veracruz region.

After leaving the museum, we’d still have to cross the street to visit the pyramid museum (the one our tickets are for), but we’ve had our fill for the day, and it’s time to think about food. Ten minutes later, we’re settling in at Garibaldi, the upscale (relatively speaking) restaurant on a corner of the Zócalo. Mexican dolls decorate the niches along the walls, grinning at us with their skeleton teeth. Nothing like that to whet our appetites! Actually, we eat very well for 370 pesos, or 17 €. For two people, that’s really reasonable.

That’s all for this batch! Hasta luego!
ME Memphre Globetrotter ·
Hi everyone,

It’s with obvious pride that we mention that Moctezuma ate from polychrome tableware from Cholula!

Proof, we need proof… We want evidence showing Moctezuma eating from such tableware…😎

In the Ciudad Victoria region, there’s a curiosity (?) called « Moctezuma’s Table, » but no tableware has ever been seen there…

For the mountain range(s), I’ll stick with the ''Sierra,'' Oriental, Central, and Occidental… it simplifies things😛 Having driven through them several times, I remember these winding mountains are just as impressive as the Pyrenees or the Alps. I can still hear my wife’s comments: ''Are we ever going to stop turning?''😛

The ''breathtaking'' views—or even ''heart-stopping'' ones—are in those areas…

Today, April 22nd, with lockdown, snow, and -7°C outside, thanks again to Georges for sending us a bit of Mexican sunshine (the real one…!)
On met longtemps à devenir jeune...
GE GeorgesOZ Globetrotter ·
Cholula – Textiles

On our second night in Cholula, no mistake, we went back to the mezcalería we’d tried the night before. This time, I gave in to a cocktail made with pulque, mezcal, and strawberry juice: the »ometeotl«, a very Nahuatl name. It wasn’t the best drink I’ve ever had, but it was okay. Since we liked the place, we ate there and had two or three more drinks. After downing my third of a liter of cheap stuff—only 70 pesos—the temptation lingered: there was something on the long drink menu that intrigued me, alcohol made from chili peppers. It was the « licor de chile poblano »—how could I resist a name like that, especially since it came in green and red? A bit pricier, but it was better… and surprisingly, it didn’t burn your mouth off.

Another night where we blew our budget: a total of 500 pesos, or about 23 or 24 € for the two of us.

At the hotel, I spotted a catalog of « huipils », capes, shawls, bags, and other textiles woven and embroidered by a community somewhere in the state of Puebla.

The wool is dyed using animal and plant-based dyes—nothing chemical. Mineral pigments are also used. The scarlet or crimson red comes from cochineal (an insect). The deep blue is made from Indigofera suffruticosa, a shrub native to this part of the world—hence the name « indigo ». The etymology of the word "indigo" reminds us of the connection between India and the Americas, born from the confusion of 15th- and 16th-century Europeans: the Roman purple came from the East, and they spoke of the « indicum », meaning "from India."

My photos aren’t great—I took them quickly with my phone. Plus, I had to "enhance" them so they’d be large enough to upload to VF, which is why they’re pixelated. But you’ll agree with me: these textiles are truly stunning, almost museum pieces. 😎

So, I made a note of the region where these textiles are made, with the idea of visiting next time I’m in Mexico. It’s 100% Nahua country and pretty off the beaten path. 😉 Oh, and by the way, I’ll add another nail to the coffin of that silly dichotomy between the so-called "Colonial Mexico" and "other Mexicos."
FR Frmi31 Veteran ·
You want to talk about the Huipil, the traditional clothing of Mayan women? The ones you’re showing are ponchos and jackets worn in cold weather.
Le Mexique pour toujours après de nomb Les chiens aboient la caravane passe
FR Frmi31 Veteran ·
I have 3 Huipils and 1 Poncho at home
Le Mexique pour toujours après de nomb Les chiens aboient la caravane passe
MI Michant Veteran ·
Hi there,

But you’ll agree with me: these textiles are truly magnificent, almost museum pieces.

I showed these shawls and huipils to my wife. I got a "meh," a pretty clear pout... 🤪 She prefers things from Asia (I’d brought her pashminas from Kashmir). So now I know where I stand! On the other hand, for museum pieces, she’s all in! 😛
GE GeorgesOZ Globetrotter ·
You want to talk about the huipil clothing of Maya women those you show are ponchos and jackets worn in cold weather

Huipils aren’t exclusive to the Maya, far from it. In fact, it seems the word comes from Nahuatl: "huipilli" means "decorated dress or blouse" in Nahuatl. The Maya equivalent would be "hipil". I’ll admit I can’t say much more—I’m sure there are people way more knowledgeable about this than me.

I didn’t necessarily mean to show huipils with the few photos above; I just picked some that seemed representative of what this community produces. Actually, they’re more like shawls (I think) but also "quexquémitl" (what you call "ponchos").

Note: this production is in wool. In warmer parts of the country, it’d be cotton instead. By the way, outside the Maya world, do you really know much about Mexico?
GE GeorgesOZ Globetrotter ·
I showed these shawls and huipils to my wife. I got a "meh," a pretty clear pout... 🤪 She prefers things from Asia (I’d brought her pashminas from Kashmir). So now I know what to expect! But for museum pieces, it’s a yes! 😛

Personally, what interests me most are blankets and other items you can use at home, rather than clothes to wear outside. For a woman, there are more possibilities, I think—wearing a blouse or draping an "exotic" shawl is fun. She’s never one to shy away from local outfits. 😉 But as they say, to each their own, right?

You mention pashminas from Kashmir. Without a doubt, Kashmir produces high-quality crafts. But I’ve seen so many pashminas... (of all qualities, even in India).

Kashmir would open a whole chapter on India, but since it’s much bigger than Mexico, we’d never get through it easily! For textiles, it’s amazing, to put it briefly.
MI Michant Veteran ·
By the way, after leaving the Maya world, do you really know much about Mexico?

It's a religion! 😎 https://voyageforum.com/v.f?post=10124274;a=10124274
ME Memphre Globetrotter ·
Hello

But you’ll agree with me: these textiles are truly magnificent, almost museum pieces.

I showed these shawls and huipils to my wife. I got a "meh," a clear pout... 🤪 She prefers things from Asia (I’d brought her pashminas from Kashmir). So now I know what to expect! On the other hand, for museum pieces, she’s all in! 😛

Hi,

The huipils (blouses or shirts with square necklines and long or short sleeves) worn in certain regions of Mexico and throughout Guatemala are especially remarkable for their colors and designs, which are stunning in the context of their countries of origin..😛 I’ve bought colorful, embroidered shirts in Guatemala because I found them so beautiful! But those clothes don’t fit in outside of Guatemala, and the same goes for some so-called Mayan clothes from Mexico. Out of context, they become... "folkloric" clothes...!!! Nowadays, when it’s time to return and think about gifts, we lean toward practical yet beautiful items, like tablecloths (mantel), ceramic plates (from Dolores Hidalgo), or margarita-specific glasses (from San Luis Potosí). The advantage of traveling by road... and filling up the car trunk! 😏
On met longtemps à devenir jeune...
GE GeorgesOZ Globetrotter ·
….Out of context, these become "folkloric" clothes…..!!!… Nowadays, when it comes time to return and think about possible gifts, we lean toward the practical…..

That’s exactly what I think. I only wear those exotic clothes I bought (mostly) in India or Bangladesh in the Y region of Thailand—they’re so comfortable, especially in hot weather. In Europe, people would think I’m crazy.

As for Y, she can wear whatever she wants pretty much anywhere. 😎😉

So, I also focus a lot on practical things (home textiles).
JO Joss34 ·
I get her "offbeat" side better now. How can someone knowingly choose a religion that even the locals no longer practice (at least seriously) and that required human sacrifices and blood to appease the Gods.
GE GeorgesOZ Globetrotter ·
I get her "quirky" side better now. How can someone knowingly choose a religion that even the locals don’t practice anymore (at least not seriously) and that required human sacrifices and blood to appease the Gods.

Oh? That’s something new. Can you explain?
JO Joss34 ·
I get her "offbeat" side better now. How can someone knowingly choose a religion that even the locals no longer practice (at least seriously) and that required human sacrifices and blood to appease the Gods.

Oh? That’s something new. Can you explain?

Just click on the link Michant posted a bit earlier. We learn that our fabulous fan of the "real" Mexico, despite being Protestant by birth, chose to embrace the Mayan polytheistic religion of her own free will.... yes, the very same one that practiced human sacrifices. Of course, I suspect it’s a watered-down version for Westerners craving spirituality.
GE GeorgesOZ Globetrotter ·
I get her "eccentric" side better now. How can someone knowingly choose a religion that even the locals no longer practice (at least seriously) and that required human sacrifices and blood to appease the Gods.

Oh? That’s something new. Can you explain?

Just click on the link Michant posted a bit earlier. We learn that our fabulous fan of the "real" Mexico, despite being Protestant by birth, chose to embrace the Mayan polytheistic religion of her own free will.... yes, the same one that practiced human sacrifices. Of course, I suspect it’s a watered-down version for Westerners craving spirituality.

Oh, thanks! I missed that. Surprising, indeed. Now I understand your term "eccentric" better. Actually, it’s like joining a cult, with everything that entails: abandoning common sense and critical thinking, blindness, and rejection of anything different, among other things. I’m going to shock some people, I’m sure, but I really find this search for a new identity ridiculous: "meeting" with shamans, tattoos, etc. To me, it almost immediately screams a deep personal void.
FR Frmi31 Veteran ·
I got it all wrong because I'm tattooed and married by a shaman
Le Mexique pour toujours après de nomb Les chiens aboient la caravane passe
GE GeorgesOZ Globetrotter ·
From Cholula to Mexico City – Speedy Gonzales! Final Moments Before Returning to Europe

We take the bus from the SuperRapidos company to return to the capital. No, I’m not making it up—it’s really the name of the company, and as proof, I’ll even show you the ticket. It’s so nice I should think about framing it. 😉 As decoration, it could come in handy (in certain places). It would be part of our Mexican memorabilia.

The trip to Mexico City is 120 km and costs us 292 pesos for two. Departure at 10:15, arrival at the TAPO bus station at 13:45. Three and a half hours—giving us an average speed of 35 km/h. We’re pretty used to slow transport, with our trips to India (and sometimes Thailand), but this feels long. Plus, there isn’t really much traffic on the road…

We pass through Río Frío de Juárez, a small town located at high altitude at the entrance of the pass crossing the volcanic range, on the border between the state of Puebla and Mexico City. This is the normal route, the one Cortés preferred not to take to avoid Aztec ambushes—it was a different time. The high-altitude tropical forests are lush and green, refreshing. The descent into the Valley of Mexico is interesting. You can see small volcanoes everywhere on both sides of the autopista.

Our hotel, once again, is in the historic center, just a stone’s throw from the Alameda Central. Everything we could want for our last days in Mexico is within easy reach. We have one thing on our minds now: finding a few more interesting little things to buy before returning to Europe.

The next morning, we don’t hesitate to walk 2 km to check out what we can find at the FONART store on Avenida Paseo de la Reforma. There isn’t much of a selection, and it’s rather expensive. We leave the store empty-handed. To make up for this disappointment, we come across a nice-looking restaurant on our way, on Calle General Prim, Bamboleo. It’s noon, and walking works up an appetite—everyone knows that! I order the « puntas de res en salsa de chipotle ». Y chooses the « pollo a la parilla »—when I tell her it must be the Mexican equivalent of Thai « gài yâang », she doesn’t hesitate—I’ve said it before, there’s nothing more conservative and less adventurous than Thais when it comes to food! 😐 Since we’re the only customers in this fairly large and well-decorated room, we get attentive service. The food is excellent. The « tortillas tostadas » deserve a special mention—they’re among the best we’ve had on our entire trip. Well-fed and happy, with a bill of 500 pesos, including the tip—they earned it. 🙂

A kilometer further on, we arrive at the Mercado De Artesanías La Ciudadela. This is actually the best place we’ve found for these last-minute purchases. You can find everything, often of good quality, and it’s not too expensive. As almost everywhere, you can haggle—for us, it’s second nature. We leave the market loaded with a cotton hammock, a half-cotton, half-linen blanket, two shawls, and I don’t even know what else.

In the evening, we make another little discovery: a restaurant-bar on the street just behind the Museo Nacional del Arte, called « Barriga Llena ». A very friendly name: « Full Belly ». We eat delicious quesadillas « barrigas », grilled right in front of us. They also serve « cerveza de barril »—perfect, bring us two big ones! All of this is really good, and there’s a nice atmosphere, with several cheerful customers around us. We also get very friendly service from a young and pretty Indigenous woman. 😎 It’s clearly a family business because her mother comes to chat with us a little later—a very beautiful woman as well. The bill is modest: 170 pesos for two. Paying 8 € for an excellent experience—it’s worth the trip, right? 🙂 Okay, I get it, some might prefer a more conventional and complete meal elsewhere…

The last morning has arrived. We take a taxi to the airport—220 pesos. There isn’t much to see in the Duty-Free area. But we find some cute and inexpensive « sarapes » and T-shirts in a little shop called « Mexico Lovers ». Since we still have some pesos left, we take another little stroll in the liquids section. 😉 It’s the mezcal aisle that attracts us the most. I show Y the big, white « gusanos » at the bottom of some bottles: she nearly faints in horror. 🏴‍☠️ I’d told her several times, but you know, Thais can be pretty stubborn, and if something doesn’t concern them directly, they tend to politely pretend to be interested while it actually goes right over their heads… The young saleswoman and I, on the other hand, have a good laugh.

In the end, we settle on bottles of mezcal « Pelotón de la Muerte », which are on sale. Admit it, « Peloton de la Mort » is a pretty unusual name for a drink! 😉 There are no « gusanos » at the bottom, and the skull replacing the « o » on the blood-red label doesn’t scare Y off. We’ve seen plenty of skulls in 6 weeks!

Boarding time arrives. Adiós México! We definitely plan to come back because you’re one of the coolest countries we’ve ever had the chance to visit. 😎😎😎
MI Michant Veteran ·
Hello Georges,

Adiós México! We definitely plan to return

Me too, since it’s been fifty years since I last set foot there! It’s bound to be a different country today! 😉

In the meantime, a huge thank you for this high-quality travel journal that kept us hooked for nearly six months! And it’s just as well, because that duration gave your journal some longevity—it didn’t get buried too quickly under the pile of redundant Yucatán stories.

You managed to show us the many facets of the «real Mexico» through your polished writing, well-researched historical pages, culinary experiences, and more. A rarity among travel journals and an enormous effort! I’ll say it again—it’s a refreshing change from the same old Maya Peninsula. 🙂

Okay, I don’t necessarily share all your viewpoints (wouldn’t have it any other way! 😉 😛), but that doesn’t matter. What does matter is that you’ve helped me see my future Mexican project more clearly. It was initially planned for next winter, but it might end up being postponed indefinitely—or until the cows come home—since we’re not ready to get back on a plane anytime soon!

You’ve reinforced my belief (and our habit) that traveling slowly is key, so I’ve planned a five-week itinerary. One week in Mexico City and the surrounding area, a week in the so-called colonial cities north of Mexico City (Guanajuato, San Miguel, and Querétaro), then the Sierra Gorda and Huasteca Potosina by rental car (no other way to do it) from Querétaro to San Luis Potosí over eight days. From there, we’ll take a bus to Zacatecas for a few days, then fly to Oaxaca for a week before returning to Mexico City. So we won’t be going to Puebla or Chiapas. You have to make choices, and you’ve convinced me to prioritize Oaxaca.

Until better days... 😐

Best,

Michel
GE GeorgesOZ Globetrotter ·
Hi Georges,

Adiós México! We definitely plan to come back

Me too, since it’s been fifty years since I last set foot there! It’s bound to be a different country today! 😉

In the meantime, a huge thank you for this high-quality travel journal that kept us hooked for nearly six months! And it’s just as well, because this length gave your journal some staying power—it didn’t get buried too quickly under the pile of redundant Yucatán stories.

You managed to show us the many facets of the "real Mexico" through your polished writing, well-researched historical insights, culinary experiences, and more. A rarity among travel journals and a massive effort! I’ll say it again—it’s a refreshing change from the same old Maya Peninsula. 🙂

Okay, I don’t necessarily share all your views (as if I would! 😉 😛), but that’s not the point. What matters is that you’ve helped me see my future Mexican project more clearly. It was initially planned for next winter, but it might end up being postponed indefinitely, since we’re not ready to get back on a plane anytime soon!

You’ve reinforced my belief (and our habit) that traveling slowly is the way to go, so I’ve planned a five-week itinerary. One week in Mexico City and the surrounding area, a week in the so-called colonial cities north of Mexico City (Guanajuato, San Miguel, and Querétaro), then the Sierra Gorda and Huasteca Potosina by rental car (no other way to do it) from Querétaro to San Luis Potosí over eight days. From there, we’ll take a bus to Zacatecas for a few days, then fly to Oaxaca, where we’ll stay for a week before returning to Mexico City. So we won’t be going to Puebla or Chiapas. You have to make choices, and you’ve convinced me to prioritize Oaxaca.

Until better days... 😐

Best,

Michel

For me, it’s been 38 years! But I’d only been to the Yucatán and Quintana Roo, on my way to Central America.

Thanks for your kind words. Yes, it’s true—writing a good travel journal takes real effort, but it benefits me in many ways too.

Oaxaca, great choice. How could you "avoid" Oaxaca, anyway? Waiting until the Greek calends... I hope the chance to take more great trips comes sooner!

Hasta luego!
GR Greggig Regular ·
Hi Georges, Just a quick note to say your travel journal was super helpful for our visit to Mexico City and then the colonial towns in winter 2023. A huge *muchas gracias* to you both.

Similar discussions

You might also like