Your recommendations for 20 days in Thailand

Just one more little detail—we’ll be arriving in Bangkok but leaving from Phuket.

Hello,

Wow, there are so many possible answers... Two more clarifications, please:

Finally, 20 days there.

Initially, we had planned: 2 days in Bangkok 1 day in Ayutthaya 4 days in Chiang Mai 6 days around Krabi

That’s 21 nights on site, and when you mention the duration of a stop, it’s in full days, so for example, here Bangkok would be 3 nights or Chiang Mai 5 nights—is that correct?

We also want to visit temples.

You’re talking about temples that are still active, in good condition, and well-decorated like the one in the photo below, not ruin sites like Ayutthaya (some first-time travelers in the country tend to mix the two up during their planning)?

We’re spending a full 20 days there, but only two nights in Bangkok since we’ll arrive at 5:55 AM. So the first day won’t be too packed because of travel fatigue.

For the rest, we’ll have full days. That means 4 days in Chiang Mai, though we’ll have one night on the train arriving early in the morning. Then we’ll stay 4 days and 4 nights—unless someone advises us to stay longer! [:)]

As for temples, both options sound interesting. We’d like to see the ancient temples in Ayutthaya, a few temples in the Chiang Mai square, Wat Phrathat Doi Suthep, and Wat Phra Lat. In Bangkok, we’re planning to visit the Grand Palace, Wat Arun, Wat Phra Kaew, and Wat Pho.

We’re open to anything! [:)]

Regarding temples, I think we’ve planned quite a few, and we don’t want to visit temples every day.

We really love nature, and a trek would be great, but I’m not sure where or how to organize it. What’s certain is we don’t want a group trek.

Lake Cheow Lan looks amazing for the landscapes, but it seems super touristy.

Visiting a lake covered in water lilies would be lovely too, but I’m not sure if it’s possible in January.

Anyway, I’ll keep reading blogs, travel journals, and other sites.

Hi Carmen,

Renting a car or using public transport?

Hi Carmen,

Car rental or public transport?

Hi Agnès, [:)]

We won’t be renting a car. I would’ve done it if we were only going to the south and not staying on the islands. Renting a car when you don’t use it half the time isn’t very cost-effective. Though, I haven’t really done the math for Thailand. But I think it requires even more planning.

We’ll be using private drivers and some public transport. We did the same in Peru this year, and it worked perfectly for us.

An extra day in Bangkok?

You could add one, even 2-3 if you wanted, since there’s plenty to see. But not doing it to free up more time for the rest isn’t a bad call (the kind of answer that actually helps you move forward...[:/]). Either way, don’t forget that Bkk is an exhausting city to get around, no matter how you travel—including on foot.

Adding days in the north? If so, where? Adding another region, like Kanchanaburi?

Adding days in the North, yes. Adding Kanchanaburi province, also yes—but not both.

For Kanchanaburi province, plan at least 7 nights: 3 in Kanchanaburi town, 3 in Sangkhlaburi, and one in between at Sai Yok Yai or Thong Pha Phum. For transport and visits, here’s how it could work, in order: - In Kan, take the 6 AM train to Namtok and get off just after it crosses the Wangpo viaduct/Death Railway Bridge, at Tham Krasae halt. Walk along the viaduct for the view, then head to Route 323 on foot (6 km, mostly uphill—take the road following the tracks to the first level crossing, cross it, and keep straight). On Route 323, wait for a bus or minivan going left, then optionally stop at Sai Yok Noi waterfall (skip if you want), re-bus/minivan, optional stop at the Hellfire Pass Museum* and the original cutting, re-bus/minivan, then overnight at Sai Yok Yai National Park (or Thong Pha Phum). "We’re early risers, so our days are often long.[:)] In short, when we travel, we like to keep things moving.[;)]" Well, you’d get your fill here! [;)] And the next day? Yep, another bus/minivan to Sangkhlaburi. If the above sounds overwhelming , minivans also do the direct Kanchanaburi–Sangkhlaburi route. The only public transport to the Wangpo viaduct is the train. In Sangkhlaburi, P. Guesthouse offers activities you might enjoy—check their website.

After Sangkhlaburi, return to Kanchanaburi during the day, then: - Either take a comfortable overnight bus to Chiang Mai (there’s also a daytime one), about 12 hours, - Or take the 55-minute air-conditioned Bus 81 (every 20 mins until ~7 PM) to Ban Pong, then a 10–15 minute walk to the train station, where night trains head to all southern rail destinations.

* Drivers won’t know it by this name but by this one: ช่องเขา ขาด Pronounced "chông kăo kàat" Also check this out: https://voyageforum.com/forum/hebergement-riviere-kwai-d10776215/

We’d love to visit a lake covered in water lilies, but I’m not sure if it’s possible in January.

I’m not sure about water lilies, but lotuses are in bloom at Talay Bua Daeng in January–February. The downside? It’s at the other end of the country, near Udon Thani—a city that’s not exactly a highlight. Direct buses run between Udon Thani and Chiang Mai.

I’ll come back later with suggestions for additions in the North.

Around Krabi, I can see the appeal (unless you're staying on the farthest beach).

For the north, much less so.

It was to explore that region that I got my international driver’s permit.

The route started in Chiang Mai, then headed toward Mae Hong Son. After that, I went to Chiang Rai to loop back to Chiang Mai.

Something like this, but with the Chiang Rai leg added.

Thanks Thierry for this very detailed reply.

In any case, don’t forget that Bangkok is an exhausting city to get around, no matter the mode of transport, including on foot.

If we add more time in Bangkok, it’ll be a maximum of one day. Apart from a few exceptions, we quickly get overwhelmed in big cities.

Adding things in the North, yes; adding Kanchanaburi province, yes too—but not both.

That’s for sure—it’ll be one or the other. Given that we’ve planned to go to Chiang Mai, it might be wiser to stay in that region.

I just read Biboun51’s travel journal, and they didn’t seem to enjoy Pai and its surroundings. Though, that’s debatable…

I’ll keep reading.

Something like that with the Chiang Rai part added.

Thanks, I’ll read this blog tonight.

Something like that with the part to Chiang Rai added.

Thanks, I’ll read this blog tonight.

Not really great, this blog. I’ve seen more comprehensive ones.

Having recently done the Mae Hong Son loop, I don’t think it’s one of the absolute must-sees in Thailand. That said, it’s hard to compare regions in a country that’s beautiful pretty much everywhere.

Not really great, this blog. I’ve seen more comprehensive ones.

After recently doing the Mae Hong Son loop, I don’t think it’s one of the absolute must-sees in Thailand.

What spots do *you* consider absolute must-sees? I’m aware that some of them might be tough to fit into a three-week trip covering both the north and the south.

Does anyone know the Mae Sariang area?

Another question.

Do you recommend a day trip from Bangkok to Songkran, the Talad Rom Hub train market, Klong Kone to see the swimming monkeys, and Amphawa for the floating market?

The train market seems super touristy. Is it the same for Klong Kone and Amphawa?

Have a great day! [:)]

Note that Amphawa is only open on Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays.

Note: Amphawa is only open on Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays.

Thanks for the info! :)

This blog was just an example. I kinda picked the first one I found.

Back when I was researching, the photos I saw really made me want to go. Plus, there were tons of little roads to explore everywhere!

Why didn’t you connect more with this region?

Few viewpoints along the routes between stops, not many interesting waterfalls compared to other regions, Pai hardly suits those over 25, and overall, the area is poorly suited for cars. True, it’s better to do this by scooter or motorbike, IMHO. The temples aren’t great (Burmese style and a pretty poor region). But after 10 visits, I might just be jaded... Just to be clear, I’m not saying you should avoid it either!

Why isn't it suitable for cars?

Are these 4x4 tracks?

Like in any country that developed its infrastructure long after ours, as soon as you leave the well-trodden paths, it quickly turns into an adventure. Lots of roads are really narrow, and there are plenty of spots where it’s not safe to stop to take the photo you want. On top of that, some sections have terrifying slopes. Hard to say if it’s 15%, 20%, or more since, in that region, they apparently only have signs showing 8% [:)]

It’s especially tight in Pai. The hotel we chose was only accessible via a rough path perched several meters above the rice fields. You could barely make a three-point turn, and there were few places where two cars could pass each other.

I don’t want to paint too grim a picture—after all, we managed to visit everything and made it back alive.

Awesome, that’s my favorite! [:p] (Not Pai, which seems a bit too touristy...) But after all, the driver has to like it too...

the north? If so, where?

Places that match what you seem to like:

-Soppong/Pang Mapha (known by both names). An area for hiking (on your own or with a guided trek) and kayaking. There’s also a famous large cave nearby. Easy access to Soppong from Chiang Mai with Prempracha minivans: https://premprachatransports.com/?target=b0o5eHFKa3lVD1dpcUtFeQ== — they now have a monopoly on this route (the bus no longer runs). Cave Lodge (https://www.cavelodge.com/accommodation/index.html) is the most well-known accommodation in the area, with reasonably priced bungalows ranging from 300-800 baht depending on comfort, and they organize outdoor activities. The food is the usual bland guesthouse fare, so it’s better to eat at one of the 3-4 small eateries in the village, just 30 meters away—it’ll be half the price and tastier. To get there from the minivan drop-off in Soppong, take a motorbike taxi; all drivers know the place, which is 7-8 km away. Other family-run guesthouses also offer accommodation and trekking, but they’re hard to find online. You’ll see ads near the minivan stop.

Mae Hong Son, the capital of the province with the same name. Ideal for trekking, white-water sports, and visiting nearby villages by songthaew (which you can rent for the day or take the infrequent regular ones). Plenty of accommodations and trekking agencies, with tourism but not too touristy. Getting there from Chiang Mai is similar to Soppong. Two comfortable night buses also connect Mae Hong Son and Bangkok, passing through Mae Sariang but not Chiang Mai.

Mae Salong: a long, narrow village with a large Chinese population (and for good reason—I’ll let you figure out why). Great for day hikes (or scooter trips if you can find one) to smaller surrounding villages. A few places to stay, including two right across from each other (and next to the songthaew stop): -Shin Sane Guesthouse, which I’ve seen there for over 30 years. It’s been modernized and even moved slightly, but the (Chinese) staff remain efficient yet indifferent. Around 500-600 baht. -Little Home Guesthouse, which I now prefer. Bungalows in a lush garden. Around 600-700 baht. To get there from Chiang Rai, take a bus to Mae Sai or Chiang Saen, get off at Mae Chan, and then take one of the 4-5 daily songthaews to Mae Salong. From Chiang Mai, you’ll first need to take a bus (4.5 hours) to Tha Thon (a highly recommended village, but it doesn’t fit your criteria), then one of the 3 daily songthaews to Mae Salong.

Chiang Rai. I assume you’ve already read a lot about this city and the sights around it. It’s more laid-back than Chiang Mai. The best area to stay is near Wat Jet Yot. Be careful—there are two bus terminals: Terminal 2, on the outskirts, where buses to other provinces depart, and Terminal 1 in the city center (a 10-minute walk from Wat Jet Yot), where buses to other destinations in the same province leave (and sometimes Greenbus buses to Chiang Mai).

Nan. The coolest (and my favorite) provincial capital in the north: compact, wide streets, bike lanes, bike rentals from the municipality (and from AirAsia at the airport), little car traffic, unique temples not to miss, minimal tourism (mostly Thai and only on weekends), plenty of accommodations starting at 600-700 baht (book ahead if it’s the weekend), and a stunning province to explore by car with a driver* (limited public transport north of Nan). To get there: one daily a/c2 bus from Chiang Rai (5 hours), half a dozen a/c1 buses from Chiang Mai, many minivans from Phrae (some from Den Chai train station), and numerous a/c1, VIP buses, and low-cost flights from Bangkok. Other routes are available too.

*To find a driver, ask at the official T.A.T. office or the other one—they’re both on the same street as Wat Phumin.

Note: In Soppong, Mae Hong Son, Tha Thon, and Mae Salong (and elsewhere during treks in the north), nights in January and February can be chilly (25-30°C difference between day and night). Bring a sweater—it’ll also come in handy on air-conditioned night buses and trains.

Photos of the countryside around Mae Salong, Nan, and Soppong are in this thread: https://voyageforum.com/forum/parties-campagne-thailandaise-d10760313/

I’ll be back later with answers to other questions.

Gradually heading north instead of taking the overnight train?

Sukhothai could be an option, but since you’ll have already seen the ruins at Ayutthaya and seem to want to stay in the north, I think you can skip it.

In the north, do you recommend Doi Inthanon, Huai Nam Dang, and Doi Chiang Dao parks? Which of these parks is the most beautiful and recommended in January?

I haven’t been to any of the three. Marien33 visited Doi Inthanon earlier this year and seemed disappointed—if they don’t reply here, check their current travel journal.

We’d love a trek, but I’m not sure where or how to organize it. What’s certain is we don’t want a group trek.

You say "a trek" in Switzerland? The bolded part might be an issue unless you’ve got a well-stocked wallet. Typically, "group" treks have 4 to 5-6 participants plus guides. Either way, to avoid jungle walks falsely sold as "treks" just because the term is trendy, don’t pick one that’s shorter than 3 days/2 nights. For the same reason, avoid any treks that include car rides*, elephant riding, bamboo rafting, or similar gimmicks. *However, it’s normal for the trip from a city to the actual trek starting point—and back at the end—to be by songthaew.

I just read Biboun51’s travel journal, and they didn’t seem to enjoy Pai or the area. But opinions vary...

I hate Pai for multiple reasons.

Jojoone1:

Having recently done the Mae Hong Son loop, I don’t think it’s one of Thailand’s absolute must-sees.

It might be worth it if you dedicate at least 10-12 days (without Pai).

Does anyone know the Mae Sariang area?

I know the town—I’ve stopped there four times, for one to three nights. I’ve also traveled Route 105 (and some of the villages along it) from Mae Sariang to Mae Sot, once in each direction.

Do you recommend an excursion from Bangkok to Songkram for the Talad Rom Hub rail market?

Samut Songkhram, more commonly called Maeklong. The market’s fun, but you won’t be the only tourist there ... I did it by taking the train independently, which isn’t easy (two different local lines plus a short ferry crossing between them—it took me half a day just for the round trip, but I couldn’t imagine arriving at a rail market by road...). Photos from the first train ride here: https://voyageforum.com/forum/loin-lotfai--lotfai-quotidien-d10777060/ I’ll post the second train ride and some market shots soon...

Do you recommend an excursion from Bangkok to (...) Amphawa for the floating market?

No. It’s super touristy, and it hasn’t been a real market for a long time. Only opens on weekend afternoons. Book your accommodation (overpriced compared to elsewhere) at least two weeks in advance. What I found way more interesting in Amphawa was the King Rama II Memorial Park... though almost no one goes there.



Jojoone1:

Pai isn’t really suited for those over 25

+1.

Does anyone know the Mae Sariang area?

Hello, it’s a small town with guesthouses overlooking the river. From there, you can go to the Salawin River, which marks the border between Thailand and Myanmar. The small villages along the Salawin are pretty remote—there aren’t many tourists down there—and you can take boat tours on the river between the two countries. Total change of scenery guaranteed!..

Thanks so much, Thierry, for your super detailed replies. I’ve got plenty to read and study tonight.

You say "une" trek in Switzerland?

No, it’s also a trek here. I don’t know why I wrote "une". 🤦‍♀️

The part in bold might be an issue unless you've got a well-padded wallet. Typically, group treks have 4 to 5-6 participants plus the guides. Anyway, to avoid the fake jungle walks sold as "treks" just because the term sounds more appealing, don't pick one that's shorter than 3 days/2 nights. For the same reason, avoid any treks that include car rides*, elephant riding, bamboo rafting, and other activities of that sort.

I think we’d actually enjoy bamboo rafting.

Thanks again for your tips.

Does anyone know the Mae Sariang area?

Hello, it’s a small town with guesthouses overlooking the river. From there, you can go to the Salawin River, which marks the border between Thailand and Myanmar. The small villages along the Salawin are pretty remote spots—there aren’t many tourists down there. You can also take boat tours on the river between the two countries; total change of scenery guaranteed!

Thanks, Denis.

Is the scenery beautiful?

Like in any country that developed its infrastructure long after ours, as soon as you leave the well-trodden paths, it quickly turns into an adventure.

I must admit we quite enjoy that kind of adventure. You just need a good 4x4, and the landscapes should be worth it.

Thanks for all the different links on VF. Unfortunately, the site is bugging again—I can’t open the links. I’ll try again tomorrow.

Hello, Maybe a few leads here or there

My message is coming in pretty late because things were glitching like crazy +++ and I couldn’t post a reply on your thread 😡😡😡

You say "une" trek in Switzerland?

You definitely say A guesthouse ;)

Great, some reading for the weekend! :) Thanks Jean-Marie.

My message is really late because it was glitching +++ and I couldn't send a reply to your thread

Yeah, it's been pretty buggy lately. I avoid clicking on the links sent by VF in emails. After that, I keep ending up on the same page. When I check my followed discussions directly on VF, there’s no problem.

Have a good day

Hi everyone,

We’re back after spending three weeks in Thailand. Thanks to all of you for your many tips. We discovered beautiful things, saw stunning landscapes, and really appreciated the kindness of the Thai people.

To our great delight, we were also able to observe animals in their natural habitat. Lots of birds—the Thale Noi Lake is especially a paradise for birdwatchers—water buffaloes, swimming monkeys, langur monkeys and gibbons, countless bats, lizards, monitor lizards (including a very large and beautiful one in Lamru National Park), thousands of colorful fish, and even a small shark!

We mainly got around using private taxi drivers, private boats, tuk-tuks in the city, a domestic flight, and the overnight train between Ayutthaya and Chiang Mai. No regrets there—everything went smoothly, the drivers were always on time, and incredibly kind. The overnight train was a great experience.

Our highlights:

Koh Ngai Island

the Thale Noi Lake in the Phattalung region, especially the early morning boat ride

the Chiang Mai area, where we took several small excursions, including two days in the mountains in a non-touristy spot with a Karen guide

the boat trip to see the swimming monkeys between Bang Tabun and Bang Chakreng

the Khmer temples in Ayutthaya

the day on Cheow Lan Lake

the day around Laem Sack with dinner on a *krachang* in Phang Nga Bay

our snorkeling spots, the feeling of being in a giant aquarium

We also enjoyed:

our two nights in Tup Keak, which is definitely the best option for the beach and sightseeing in this very touristy region

the little detour to Khao Nai Luana Dharma Park

Bangkok for two days was also interesting

What we liked less or not at all:

disrespectful tourists in some places, but this is a general issue, not just in Thailand

the railway market in Samut Songkhram—too touristy, but we knew that going in

Khao San Road in Bangkok isn’t really our thing

our last night in Khao Lak—practical before an international flight from Phuket, but this kind of beach resort really isn’t for us. Luckily, we found less touristy things to do, like Lamru National Park with its monitor lizards and beautiful little beach.

It was a varied trip and perfect in terms of pace for us. The fact that we’re early risers is a definite advantage. Very few people at the Grand Palace in Bangkok, and also very few at Wat Phra Doi Suthep, Cheow Lan Lake—our boat was one of the first to leave, we were alone in front of the famous three rocks, and as a result, we were ahead of the other boats all day.

I’m not sure if I’ll have the energy to put together a more detailed travel journal—the fact that the forum isn’t very active is a real deterrent for finding the motivation.

Thanks again to everyone!

Hi there,

Walked on the tracks in Samut Songkhram—too touristy, but we knew that already

I hope you were at least there when a train actually passed. And by the way, did you go by train or by road?

I don’t know if I’d have the courage to keep a travel journal

No pressure—there’s someone I know who’s been on forums for nearly 30 years and still hasn’t managed a proper travel journal...

Thanks Carmen (what a pretty name!) for this feedback.

I don’t know if I’d have the courage to write a more detailed travel journal—the fact that the forum isn’t very active is a real motivation killer.

That’s also why I won’t be writing a new journal. And yet, I already have so much to share from this second trip, which was already so different from the last one...! But I have a problem with silent crowds... And I don’t like soliloquizing. I already talk to myself enough in my daily life... As far back as the ancient origins of forums go, they’ve always been a place for exchanges and sharing ideas—not a place where a crowd listens to one person talking without ever responding. That’s got another Latin name, too...

I don’t know if I’d have the courage to keep a travel journal

Don’t feel obliged, I know someone who’s been on forums for nearly 30 years and has never kept a decent one...

I think I know who you’re talking about too... 😵 🤹

He’s got the gift of the gab, though... And a quick hand...🤹

That’s also why I won’t be making another travel journal. I don’t like soliloquizing. As far back as the ancient origins of a forum go, it’s always been a place for exchanging and sharing ideas

Hi there,

I think a lot of people will stop keeping travel journals on this forum for the reasons you mentioned, but at the same time, if we remove travel journals, we’re removing a (very) big part of the forum’s activity....

I hope you were at least there at a time when a train passed. And by the way, did you go by train or by road?

Yes, we were there when the train passed and luckily had a great spot to see it go by. We went by road because the main goal was to see the swimming monkeys. We loved the boat ride to see them—no tourists, just us and the old fisherman. [:)]

To make the day even better, we visited two floating markets. One was way too touristy, but our driver thought it would be better. Well, no—we preferred the one that was less touristy.

I think I know who you’re talking about too... 😵 🤌

He’s got quite the gift of gab... and a wandering hand... 🤌

Well, I don’t know who you’re referring to. But I don’t know many people in the "Southeast Asia" section of the forum.

Hey Carmen,

Welcome back! [:)]

( There were tons of travelers from the forum in Thailand this January. )

Hi Carmen,

Welcome back! [:)]

Thanks ☺️ I’d love to go back—it’s way too cold here 🥶.

(There were loads of French travelers in Thailand this January.)

January seems like a great month to visit Thailand—not too humid and not too hot, especially in the north. I was expecting to suffer more from the heat and especially the humidity.

We met Virginie (VallM17) and her husband in Bangkok.😊

I say this without putting any pressure on you, but I’d be really disappointed not to see this travel journal. My wife and I regularly revisit ours to reminisce...

My wife and I regularly come back to visit our family, just to reminisce...

Most of the time, reading travel journals bores me to death—that’s why I haven’t read more than 10 in over 25 years—but someday I’ll have to make up my mind to read one of yours. Do you have one with as little beach time as possible to recommend?

I get that given my age, you don’t wanna see me in a swimsuit [;)]

Well, 10 years ago when we started these trips, we weren’t really into beach vacations anymore. So there’s hardly any of that at all. The 2018 and 2019 travel journals are the most varied.

My wife and I regularly come back to revisit our memories...

Most of the time, reading travel journals bores me to tears—that’s why I’ve probably read fewer than 10 in over 25 years—but someday I’ll have to make up my mind to read one of yours. Do you have one with as little beach time as possible to recommend?

Still, I just found this in your travel journal "Countryside Escapes" :

Quote from Jojoone in their thread "All Over Thailand":

Good grief, what on earth do they put in those pesticides? It’s a miracle we’re still alive!

When the name of the pesticide sounds appealing, it goes down much easier...

I’m currently looking for photos that would fit in "Countryside Escapes." Just a little more patience. I just need to convert them to VF format...

Based on my criteria, a travel journal documents a single trip from start to finish and is illustrated with photos and examples—like your last two. So I don’t consider Jojoone1’s "A little everywhere in Thailand" a travel journal because it doesn’t include a narrative—or at least not what I’d call one. That’s why I check each of their updates, which is how I noticed their comment about pesticides. Similarly, I don’t consider any of my own posts in the travel journal section as such because they either lack text, photos, or a specific trip. For example, my "Far from the daily lotfai lotfai" was originally posted in the regular Thailand section, but the admin moved it to "travel journals," which, in my opinion, wasn’t justified at all—but hey, they’re the boss. Then, even though it still didn’t quite fit (by my standards), I put my posts "Old Burmese Adventures" and "Hitchhiking in Thailand" in the travel journal section because I like being able to edit each text without a time limit.

I say this without putting any pressure on, but I’d be really disappointed not to see this travel journal.

First, I’d need to start the travel journal of our trip to Peru, which was certainly out of the ordinary.

My wife and I regularly revisit ours to reminisce...

I write a "travel journal" for each of our trips. I make an album with text and photos. It’s super handy when you want to relive your travels. Unfortunately, I haven’t finished the Peru one yet, and I’ll do the same for Thailand.

Here are a few "travel journal" albums from our trips. They’re wonderful memories.

But it’s true that travel journals on VF let you connect with other forum members. I’ve always loved writing my travel journals here. However, since the reopening, the forum has been less active, and the various bugs don’t help.