Bonjour,

Actuellement toulousain, je pense prochainement partir vivre a Hong Kong... et meme si je sais que parler cantonais n'est pas indispensable pour vivre la-bas, je souhaiterais acquerir des rudiments de cantonais. J'ai deja achete une methode m'apprenant le vocabulaire de base, mais j'aurais aimé savoir s'il y avait des professeurs de cantonais sur Toulouse, ou des locuteurs avec lesquels il m'aurait ete donné la possibilité de pratiquer cette langue.

Merci

Bonjour,

Après avoir lu mon guide LP et parcouru le forum vf, difficile de se concentrer sur un itinéraire "simple" d'un mois en Chine sans se disperser 🤪

Arrivée prévue le 5 juillet à Béjing pour un retour le 5 août de Béjing... entre deux, une multitude de choses à voir avec ces distances à parcourir.

Est-il raisonnable de descendre directement par train depuis Béjing jusque Guilin (24h) pour rayonner dans cette région avant de remonter sur Shangai (26h) et poursuivre le trip ? ... vous allez sans doute me dire qu'il y a des choses aussi intéressantes plus prêt... mais j'ai un faible pour les rizières en terrasse 🙂 ... y a aussi l'avion mais c'est hors budget !

Bref, si vous pouvez me faire part de vos coups de coeur pour la Chine.... je vous en serais reconnaissant 😊

Tane

bonsoir à tous,

je viens juste de m'inscrire, je ne connais pas encore très bien le fonctionnement du site, mais je suis à la recherche de plusieurs renseignements. en effet un ami me propose d'aller le rejoindre à macau pour le nouvel an.

je ne suis jamais partie en vacance et ne sais donc pas toutes les formalitées à prevoir.

en cherchant sur internet, j'ai trouvé un vol à un prix dérisoire pour les dates du 26/12 au 2/01.

- est ce possible d'obtenir un passeport en si peu de temps (je suis de belgique)? - ai je également besoin d'un visa? - vaut il mieux que je change mon argent à bxl avant mon départ? - mon anglais est loin d'etre bon, est ce facile de se faire comprendre? (surtout que je vais avoir plusieurs escale, + trouvé le ferry de hong kong jusqu'à macau et ensuite prende un taxi jusqu'à destination.

voilà, mes questions vont peut etre vous paraitre un peu idiote, mais je suis vraiment une néophite 😊 et meme si je salive de ce voyage, je stresse .....

merci à tous

From Beijing to Khiva: China, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan Chronicle of anecdotes, highlights, and other adventures that marked this eight-week journey in 2018.



The Chinese Far West More than 30 years after my first trip to eastern China, I finally fulfilled an old dream: traveling solo from Beijing to the far west, discovering Xinjiang, the Uyghur people and the oppression they endure, the oases of Turpan and Kashgar, the Taklamakan Desert, the end of the Great Wall... The route was covered by train.

MENU PART 1: CHINA

1- Beijing (Jiankou) : the authentic Great Wall, without tourists 2- Cycling in Beijing, the best way to get around 3- Beijing : departure for the far west 4- Jiayuguan : getting by without English 5- Jiayuguan : scams and heritage 6- Dunhuang : abundance in the middle of the desert 7- Turpan : the Uyghurs under heavy surveillance 8- Kashgar : love at first sight for the old city 9- Kashgar : China’s recipe for controlling the populace 10- Tashkurgan : what on earth was I thinking going there! Kyrgyz border: a surreal epic Photo album from the 80s, contributions from other travelers (page 2)

1- JIANKOU Finding the authentic Great Wall, without tourists or a guide Friday, August 24, 2018 Thirty years later, I didn’t feel like revisiting the Great Wall at Badaling or any other overcrowded site. I chose to explore it at Jiankou, in its wildest, most authentic, and unrestored section, starting from a lost village deep in a valley—though it wasn’t *that* lost, since it had everything for communication.



No need to pay for a taxi to get there—by timing it right, you can take the bus for just a few yuan. You have to get off at Xizhazi, the bus terminus. Be careful, there are only two buses a day in each direction. At the Xizhazi bus stop, I met a young couple who’d arrived with zero information about what to expect. We hiked the three of us toward the restored section of Mutianyu.

Still, be cautious With GPS and a topographic map (OpenTopoMap), you can set off without a problem or guide. The trail up to Jiankou is easy and well-marked. The trails down are too. But be careful—once you’re on the Wall, it’s real mountain hiking, with easy but dangerous climbing sections (over sheer drops). Not for amateurs or those afraid of heights! But what a reward. The Wall all to yourself, where it’s at its most daring. Truly mesmerizing.

More photos...

2- BEIJING The best way to get around the capital Sunday, August 26 The best way to explore the city is still by bike. Most are in a bike-share system, but you need to use an app—WeChat, the app that does everything, like monitoring your every move. No way I was installing that.



I found one at a rental shop near the hostel. The key is to quickly learn local traffic customs to minimize risks. Bike lanes are wide along the avenues.

But you still have to: - Watch out for anything parked on the bike paths—the most annoying are people napping or talking on the phone in their cars - Keep an eye on everything coming the wrong way—the list is long - The worst is right turns on red, which in Chinese traffic rules seem to have priority Once you get the hang of it, it’s fine. The city is huge but flat, so you can just wing it.

3- BEIJING By train to the far west Sunday, August 26 Beijing West Station is the size and operates like an airport. With your e-ticket from the agency, you first have to pick up your ticket at the special "English" counter, after passing through security. With your ticket in hand, you have to exit and enter through the boarding waiting area—not the platform—after a second security check.

Then you find the right hall and wait for the sign to finally access the platform. In the end, it works pretty well given the incredible number of passengers to manage. Everywhere in Beijing, I saw that the Chinese have mastered crowd flow management.

Nice surprise: second-class carriages are clean, air-conditioned, and bright. Perfect, since I was in for 20 hours. One uniformed attendant per carriage, mobile meal service—luxury! Small downside: no luggage space. Hauling your suitcase up to the top bunk is quite a workout. I was in the middle, so it wasn’t too bad. The landscape, though, whether rural or urban, is pretty bleak. That should change once we leave the eastern plains.

Of course, I got my first police visit, with a thorough passport check and bag search. I was warned—going to the Chinese far west exposes you to this kind of hassle. But they were polite and respectful.

The Chinese Far West

4- JIAYUGUAN Getting by without English Monday, August 27 At the gates of two deserts (Gobi and Taklamakan) and at the foot of the Tibetan highlands, the Great Wall ends at Jiayuguan. Here, I found the deeper China I’d somewhat rediscovered during my bike ride, even if now everyone gets around on electric bikes and I’m no longer stared at like an alien.



Prices are nothing like Beijing: you can find a full meal for 2 €, and my bike cost 7 € for two days. Plus, few people speak English—neither the owner of the HI hostel where I stayed, nor the ticket sellers at the sites, let alone the servers at the small eateries where I ate. Everything is written in Chinese. So I had to use the little Chinese I know to communicate about essentials. It makes the locals laugh to see a European trying to speak their language, but it earns respect. With Google Translate’s help, I managed.

Rant: With their avenues blocked for construction for kilometers without warning, and new roads not yet on maps, I must’ve taken 15 km of detours. More photos...

5- JIAYUGUAN Scams and heritage Tuesday, August 28 The Great Wall doesn’t exactly end at the fort I visited yesterday but 10 km further, at the entrance to a river gorge at the foot of the mountains. All that’s left is a badly damaged tower (more like a mound of earth) and a section of clay wall, similar to the one I biked yesterday.



This morning, I hopped on my bike, determined to venture into the desert to see this highly symbolic site. First, you access it via a wide, brand-new road with not a soul in sight. Just before the site, I came across a grand welcome gate, very period-style, but it’s actually the inevitable toll booth.

Behind the gate, the road continues straight to the site, which you can see in the distance—at least 2 km away—the remains of the tower and wall. I had to leave my bike here. Fine. I went to the ticket counter and asked the price: 120 yuan! I couldn’t believe it—over 15 € for a simple mound of earth.

I showed my displeasure to the attendant, who couldn’t care less, and immediately turned back. 120 yuan—that’s the price for a new road, a fancy gate planted 2 km before the site just to force you to take a shuttle, and employees with nothing to do all day... Now I understand why I didn’t meet anyone!

Heritage China is a bit pricey Generally, sites are expensive for the country’s standard of living, but travelers are supposed to have money, so why hold back? I even gave up on the Forbidden City—reservations required days in advance (or on the black market at an impossible price). I prefer to keep the memory of my first visit, when entry must’ve cost a few dozen cents, and there were only a handful of visitors.

This morning, I took a taxi to see remarkable tombs of common people from the 3rd to 6th centuries. They’re small vaulted caves made of painted bricks, depicting scenes of daily life. Very pretty and moving. But even here, though the price was more reasonable, I was left wanting—only one of the 16 tombs is open to visitors, and it’s apparently not the most beautiful.

The authentic China—at least what’s left of it... Wandering the impersonal avenues of the city, you stumble upon a market. There, you still find traditional China—small shops with questionable hygiene, Go players, musicians, and even a dental prosthetist. The last refuge for those untouched by modernity. More photos...

6- DUNHUANG Abundance in the middle of the desert Wednesday, August 29 Well, I thought the landscape would be less bleak as I headed west. Nope. The only distraction in this expanse of dark, clayey sand is the forests of pylons and wind turbines, plus wild camels racing each other.

However, Dunhuang, the gateway to the Taklamakan, is by far the most pleasant Chinese city I know. There’s a real city center you can explore on foot. It’s hot but not unbearable, with a light, dry breeze. Much nicer than Beijing. The Han Chinese are still the majority, but the Muslim Uyghurs are more numerous, and the muezzin’s call to prayer echoes around the mosque.

The most surprising thing is the abundance and diversity of fruits and vegetables. You wonder how it all grows here. Well-irrigated, the desert sands are very fertile. Here, raisins have subtle, mysterious flavors, and the lamb really tastes like lamb.

Today, I visited the must-see Mingshashan, a dune complex next to which Pila is a molehill. The Basque Country, but covered in sand... More photos...

7- TURPAN The Uyghurs under heavy surveillance Friday, August 31 Surveillance cameras everywhere in the city, armed police stationed at intersections, in front of public buildings, at the entrance and inside tourist sites, police stations on every corner, patrols on foot or by car, khaki uniforms even for middle schoolers... here, the Han Chinese are in the minority, and you can feel it. Turpan feels like a city under siege.



To enter the youth hostel where I stayed, there’s even a security gate, and the receptionist (a Han, like everyone in tourism) wears a bulletproof vest! Reassuring. Still, you don’t feel particularly threatened here, especially as a European. The troublemakers are the Chinese, not the Uyghurs. Generally, China is a very safe country for visitors.

Smile, you’re on camera! I was biking on an avenue when the car in front of me got flashed for driving slowly. I quickly understood why when I got flashed too.

Here, the official time is Beijing time, but it gets dark two hours later. It’ll be even worse in Kashgar. Trickier to manage: everything is displayed in Chinese and Arabic. Nothing in English. Choosing a menu is a shot in the dark. Apart from a few young Chinese, no one here speaks English, and my Chinese doesn’t seem very understandable...

Mogao, the end of the road for the Han Yesterday, near Dunhuang, I went to Mogao, a complex of decorated caves with Buddha sculptures and paintings. Stunning, but so crowded! Luckily, here in Turpan, Chinese tourists barely venture out. So I visited a Silk Road ghost town with only a handful of other visitors and under a howling wind.

The modern Chinese city is swallowing up the old Uyghur neighborhoods—only a museum-like district remains in the center, and pockets of resistance on the outskirts are doomed to disappear soon. More photos...

8- KASHGAR A (relative) love at first sight for the old city Sunday, September 2 After three overnight trains, here I am in the far west of China, nearly 4,000 km from the capital. Despite the omnipresent police and an old city preserved UNESCO-style, Kashgar is my Chinese love at first sight.



Finally, Chinese... well, sort of, because we’re in Uyghur territory here—a Turkic people with nothing culturally in common with the Han, the eastern Chinese. It started badly yesterday at Turfan station, where after three security gate passes, at least five passport checks, and a bag search, three adorable policewomen confiscated my antibacterial lotion because it had a flammable logo...

Then came the welcoming committee of armed cops at Kashgar station. Once all that was over, they left me alone—except you still have to go through security checks like everyone else to enter the old city, the bazaar, the livestock market... The further west you go, the more the siege mentality is evident. Luckily, the border isn’t far...

Despite the inevitable destruction-reconstruction, the city center has been well preserved. Thankfully, because it’s a very original style, a mix of local and colonial. I love it, even if it’s a bit too artificial, sanitized, and watered-down, and rather empty of residents. On the Silk Road, the city was famous for its great food. And it still is—rarely have I seen such richness and abundance of food! And not just scorpions or snakes. More photos...

9- KASHGAR China’s recipe for controlling the populace Saturday, September 1 Xinjiang, along with Tibet, is a "sensitive" area of rebellion in the eyes of Chinese authorities. As a result, the state has these regions and their populations under total control. Tourists also feel the consequences, even if they’re not at risk of re-education camps.

- Putting barbed wire and anti-ramming barriers around sensitive sites (schools, big hotels, government buildings...) - Installing traffic surveillance gates with cameras and photo flashes (for all vehicles passing, including bikes) throughout the city and even in the countryside - Posting uniformed guards with tasers, batons, or huge baseball bats every 100 meters - Training the Han population (ethnic Chinese) in self-defense with sticks, preferably in the morning on the street. Men and women of all ages - Starting school with the national anthem, doing military exercises, and receiving political indoctrination, all neatly lined up in the courtyard. (The dream school for any teacher) - Placing a snitch in uniform (a pseudo-guard) in public gathering places, like youth hostels. Mine spends the day loafing around the courtyard - Putting Chinese flags everywhere on the streets to remind everyone who’s in charge - Installing security gates at every entrance to areas frequented by tourists (thanks for that) but not just there - Never photographing cops, or else! I tried, but it’s not easy...

With all that, you can stroll around safely Not much crime! As for the amount the Chinese state spends to maintain such a system, it’s staggering! A third of the Han living in Xinjiang work in security. Today, I wandered freely around old Kashgar, which is quite large after all. More photos...

10- TASHKURGAN What on earth was I thinking going there! Wednesday, September 5 First, there’s the taxi—pretty crappy, with a driver who doesn’t speak a word of English and won’t stop smoking. Over six hours in that... shared with a completely out-of-it American.



Then there are all the checkpoints along the way. I won’t go on—you know the drill by now.

After that, there’s Tashkurgan—a town with nothing to see, nothing to do. Deserted as soon as night falls. There’s this huge youth hostel and a few lost Chinese tapping away on their smartphones, chain-smoking. This lost American-European crowd, swapping tips on how to enter Pakistan or Tajikistan.

Luckily, there’s the Chinese Pamir Highway, lined with peaks over 7,000m. There’s the feeling of no longer being in China, with a population whose features are Middle Eastern. And these Tajik women with their stunning hairstyles and vibrant costumes. There’s the fact of having reached the westernmost Chinese city, far from crowds and tourist sites. A sort of end of the world. More photos...

11- KYRGYZ BORDER A surreal epic Thursday, September 6 The road from Kashgar to the Kyrgyzstan border is a little over 200 km and passes through beautiful landscapes of colorful, desert-like mountains with acrobatic folds. That’s the bucolic part of the trip.

Yesterday, I managed to gather four people to rent a minibus to reach the border more easily: a Spaniard and an Argentine I’d already met in Turpan, and two New Zealanders who responded to the ad left at the hostel.

Absurdity and paranoia of Chinese authorities The highlight was crossing the town of Wuqia, 50 km past Kashgar. After tallying up with my fellow sufferers, we must’ve passed about ten checkpoints with: - Passport checks: 14 times, sometimes by two cops side by side - Bag checks: 4 times - Smartphone checks: 2 times, with deletion of "non-compliant" photos, and registration of your IMEI in the exit log!... Absurd and surreal at the same time, since my camera stayed in my bag, my apps are in French, and my photos have been online for ages...

With all that, we arrived just as the last checkpoint before the no man’s land marking the border between the two countries was on lunch break. And bam! Another 1.5-hour wait, alongside truckers who were much more used to this than we were.

What to think? The cops themselves aren’t fooled. They play the role they’re asked to, but sometimes you can coax a smile out of them—they realize how ridiculous the situation is.

What’s the point? That’s the big question my companions and I were tempted to answer with "to piss people off." To show you your place isn’t here, but with the other tourists, over there in the east, in Shanghai, Xi’an, or Guangzhou.

As for you, a traveler from a democratic country, you really experience this as aggression, humiliation, a violation of your private space. And yet, I’m respected, they speak to me properly. Today, I better understand what a Palestinian or a citizen of an occupied country might feel daily. A unique experience! Thanks, China.

And to top it off, the cherry on the cake! It’s still this glowing button you press to rate your passage after clearing the last obstacle before the exit stamp. I was so surprised it turned off before I could react. The Spaniard, with great humor and irony, had time to vote "excellent." In the end, he wasn’t wrong—you can hardly do better!

PS: I ditched my buddies at the border. They didn’t want to pay for a taxi to continue. So I took a direct taxi to Osh. The first 100 km are fabulous. I couldn’t take many photos, but I’ll be back on Monday to go to Tajikistan.

More photos...

The rest of the Silk Road, Part 2, in these travel journals: Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan.

Bonjour, Nous sommes un couple de routard partons pour Hong Kong le 14/7 et rentrons le 11/8/2016; Nous souhaitons faire quelques treks, visiter les minorités ethniques, rencontrer les locaux malgré le fait que nous ne parlions pas le mandarin ....Est-ce envisageable ? Nous ne connaissons pas la Chine mais souhaitons emprunter les transports en commun, descendre dans des restos fréquentés par les locaux....Bref essayer de voyager au plus près de la population. Qui pourrait nous dire depuis Hong Kong ce qui serait le plus abordable financièrement pour rejoindre Kunming en train ? en bus ? en avion ? Qu'est ce qui serait le plus facile ? NOus pensions depuis HK rejoindre Guangzhou (Canton) en train ou bus puis prendre un train direct pour Kunming. NOus serions donc au plus loin de HK au début du séjour pour revenir tranquillement vers notre point de départ en bus ou autre .... Nous aimerions avoir vos conseils concernant les sites à ne pas rater dans cette région. Vos coups de coeur ....Nous serions intéressés pour partager quelques visites de site avec des routards si l'occasion se présentait? En attente de vous lire. Bien cordialement.

Hello forum,

Did any of you feel the same things we did in China?

We spent a good twenty days there in August. First, we traveled solo around Chengdu, then joined an organized tour for 12 days (Beijing, Pingyao, Xi'an, Guilin, Xingping, Yangshuo, Shanghai, Wuzhen) and extended our stay by 4 extra days to visit Zhangjiajie.

The landscapes were stunning, and we have unforgettable memories... but we were really disappointed by the following points:

- The food: way too spicy. Lacking in flavor, not much taste. I’m speaking "in general" because we did enjoy some good steamed dumplings, smoked pork, and other dumplings... But compared to Thailand, Cambodia, or India, Chinese cuisine didn’t impress us at all.

- The behavior of the Chinese: disrespectful, rushed, agitated. You constantly have to fight—people push, crowd, and overwhelm you... At the entrance to the Terracotta Army (and other sites), it’s a human tidal wave... and I mean that literally. We were carried by the crowd without even touching the ground. It was like a situation where you have one bowl of rice and 20,000 starving people diving for it...

You’re at a ticket counter, and they cut in front of you. You’re in line for boarding, suitcase ready to go on the conveyor belt, and someone shows up out of nowhere to put THEIR suitcase down... even though they have a flight ticket with THEIR seat number and won’t be leaving before you!!!! You’re getting on the bus, and someone shoves past you just so they don’t end up behind you.

It’s like these people only think about themselves. I didn’t see a single person let someone else go first or even ask—it’s as if politeness and respect are completely foreign to them.

It’s honestly exhausting and draining...

- Communication: In every other country we’ve visited, whether in Asia or Europe, we always manage—with English, a few words of Italian, French, or Spanish. In China, I’ll be blunt: if you don’t speak Chinese, you’re screwed. And yet, a pair of kids around ten or twelve years old asked us in English where we were from :)

- Understanding: Here’s the rule. Even if the person you’re talking to speaks a little English and says they understand you... make sure they *really* do, because 9 times out of 10, they don’t. Out of pride or just cluelessness, they’ll give you a big smile and nod, but in reality, they didn’t get what you were saying.

Several times with our group, in the evening at a restaurant, if we hadn’t been helped by someone at another table who spoke a little English, we’d still be there. The classic example: the waiter brings one menu (for 10 people at the table), and we’re all trying to explain that we need 4 or more menus. Five minutes later, he’s still staring at us with that same blank smile...

In 3* or 4* hotels, you go to the front desk for a hot water or AC issue. Three or four staff members just stand there beaming at you. You try to explain with photos or a translator, but in the end, you leave with the problem unresolved.

They don’t speak—they shout... on buses, in hotels...

We were also surprised to find that self-service laundromats were almost nonexistent. We got scammed once at a hotel with an astronomical bill!

As for flights, we flew Air China on the way there and Austrian Airlines on the way back—no comparison. Air China had zero service and food that was "baby food" quality. Austrian Airlines had multiple services, a decent meal, and smiling flight attendants.

I don’t know if any of you had the same experience in this country, but I’m definitely not eager to go back. Whereas if someone offered me India, Thailand, or Vietnam tomorrow, I’d be there in a heartbeat!!!

On trouve en Asie une grande quantité de peuples dont les origines et les liens de parenté ne sont souvent pas évidents. La confusion est d’autant plus grande qu’ils ont une variété de noms aux sonorités assez semblables à premier abord, et qu’un groupe donné se voit attribuer des noms différents suivant le pays où on le rencontre, la date à laquelle on en parle, l’auteur etc…. Meo, Miao, Yao, Hmong, Lao, Taï, Thaï, Qiang, Jurchen, Mandchous, Khitai etc…. la liste et longue ! Comment s’y retrouver ? D’où viennent-ils et comment sont-ils reliés les uns aux autres?

Je ne suis pas ethnologue, mais c’est un sujet qui m’a toujours intéressé. Au fil de mes lectures, je me suis rendu compte que pratiquement tous les peuples qui se trouvent maintenant en Asie du sud-est sont originaires de la Chine. La plupart des experts, par exemple, font remonter à Taiwan les langues austronésiennes, c.-à-d. malais, langues cham du sud du Vietnam, langues parlées dans le monde Malayo-Polynésien, qui s’étend de Madagascar jusqu’à Hawaï mais dont on trouve encore aujourd’hui quelques traces en Asie du sud-est. Comme référence, il suffit de citer l’excellent « Cambridge History of South-Est Asia », Vol. 1, Part One, « From early times to c. 1500 », 1999 ; page 112 (je traduis):

« Pendant l’étape linguistique proto-Austro-Tai (vers 4500 av. JC ?), il semblerait que des colonisateurs possédant une culture agraire franchirent le détroit de Formose pour atteindre Taiwan. Ils y établirent les langues initiales du groupe Austronésien. Leur population augmenta et se répandit à travers l’île, jusqu’à ce que, un millénaire plus tard peut-être (vers 3500 av. JC ?), leurs descendants linguistiques firent leurs premiers mouvements vers Luzon. » Etc……

Curieusement, je n’étais pas trop porté sur la Chine au départ, mais j’ai fini par me rendre à l’évidence : un minimum de connaissances sur la Chine est essentiel pour comprendre les populations de l’Asie du sud-est et même au-delà. Que s’est-il passé en Chine qui aurait poussé tous ces peuples à se déplacer vers le sud ?

Permettez-moi une plaisanterie ! On peut apporter une réponse simple et rapide à cette question : « Les Chinois sont des casse-pieds qui bousculent les gens autour d’eux. Les habitants non-Chinois de la Chine en ont eu marre, ont ramassé leurs cliques et leurs claques et se sont cassés ».

Il y a du vrai dans cette réponse, mais nous sommes entre gens un peu moins simplistes que ça, j’en suis sûr, et il doit y avoir plus à dire sur le sujet ! Je me propose de prendre autant de raccourcis que possible sur l’histoire de la Chine, pour en distiller ce qui m’intéresse ici, c.-à-d. les mouvements des peuples dans la sphère géographique chinoise. Ma référence principale (il faut bien commencer quelque part, comme je l’ai dit, ce n’est que récemment que « j’aborde la Chine ») est un livre publié en 2008: « China, A History » (« Chine, Une Histoire ») de John Keay. Ce journaliste britannique a dénoncé le « consensus international, pour ne pas dire la conspiration, de faire de l’histoire de la Chine un sujet aussi rébarbatif et incompréhensible que possible ». Je recommande vivement de le lire (je ne sais pas s’il a été traduit en français).

On me reprochera peut-être ma préférence à (souvent, sauf pour les termes déjà bien acceptés en français) ne pas utiliser les formes féminine ou plurielle pour les noms d’ethnies et de cultures de la Chine et de l’Asie en général. Ces formes n’existent ni en chinois ni dans d’autres langues locales. Je préfère donc dire « les Xia » plutôt que « les Xias ». Le comble, il me semble, est le terme « Laos », introduit il semblerait par des missionnaires Portugais, le « s » final en faisant un nom en portugais. Le problème, à mon avis, c’est que tout le monde prononce se « s » final, qui n’existe pas dans la langue Lao. Que ceux que ma petite manie dérange ajoutent les « s », les « e » et les « es » où ils veulent !

Alors allons-y! Premier chapitre:

Les débuts - Xia

La première dynastie chinoise reconnue, suivant la période des « cinq empereurs » mythiques, fut celle des Xia (2070-1600 av. JC ; chinois traditionnel: 華夏 ; chinois simplifié : 华夏; pinyin: Huáxià). On n’est pas absolument sûr que les Xia aient vraiment existé. La dynastie suivante, celle des Shang, est mieux corroborée. L’évidence archéologique ferait correspondre les Xia à un ensemble de cultures néolithiques et de l’âge du bronze du bassin inférieur du Fleuve Jaune (Huang He), c.-à-d. de la Plaine Centrale de la Chine du nord qui s’étend de la province de Shandong à la province du Shaanxi.

L’histoire de la Chine, presque toujours un produit « officiel » par des gens qui avaient un « agenda », a tendance à idéaliser et à simplifier. En fait, il ne semble pas que le nord de la Chine ait été contrôlé d’une façon uniforme et centralisée par les premières dynasties. Et les développements qui résultèrent en une « culture chinoise » se déroulèrent plutôt sur des territoires plus vastes que ceux des Xia, et auraient impliqué des peuples qui n’étaient probablement pas uniformes d’un point de vue ethnique. En fait, le concept d’ethnies bien séparées ne semble pas « tenir la route », une constatation qui n’est pas unique à l’Asie d’ailleurs. On devrait plutôt parler de culture et d’héritage linguistique. De la même façon, le mot «Han », désignant au départ une dynastie (202 av. JC – 189 après JC), en passa à être utilisé comme une étiquette ethnique et se trouve maintenant être la dénomination officielle de la majorité du peuple chinois, supposée être d’une seule et même ethnie.

Toujours est-il que les peuples de la Plaine Centrale, constituant le noyau des futurs Han, en fait les ancêtres de l'ethnie Han, se désignaient aux derniers siècles av. JC comme « Xia » pour se différencier des peuples « moins Chinois » considérés comme barbares, pour lesquels on usait de termes tels que « Di » ou « Rong ». Les Di ou Rong auraient été assimilés au fil de la très longue dynastie des Zhou (1050 – 256 av. JC). Cela résultait peut-être du sentiment d’avoir une identité privilégiée en tant qu’héritiers du royaume Xia, par des gens qui ont fini par se désigner comme « Xia ». Pour une première fois, avant l’usage du terme « Han », on avait abusé d’un terme désignant une culture pour désigner une population qui n’était pas ethniquement homogène.

Le terme « Xia » était encore utilisé pour désigner la culture « Chinoise », celle du nord, à l’époque ou les Qin (d’un «état » du nord qui correspondait plus ou moins au Shaanxi d’aujourd’hui) commencèrent à unifier le territoire chinois dans un sens moderne. En particulier, le roi Hui de la dynastie Qin conquit le Sichuan (le pays « des quatre rivières », connu jusque là sous les termes de Shu et Ba) au IV-ème siècle av. J-C (on cite la date de 316 av. JC). Le Sichuan tomba donc sous l’influence culturelle Xia, et fut intégré dans l’empire chinois.

Cette consolidation intégra d’autres territoires « non-Xia » : le reste du bassin du Yang Tse, une grande partie de la Chine du sud et la Mongolie Intérieure. L’apogée fut Huangdi, le premier empereur historique, rendu fameux entre autres par l’ armée de terre cuite de sa tombe (dont la chambre centrale n’a pas encore été excavée), et qui régna au III-ème siècle av. J-C. La dynastie Qin ne dura pas longtemps, mais donna la base à partir de laquelle l’empire suivant, celui des Han, se reforma à partir de la fin du III-ème siècle av. J-C.

Voilà donc ma première fournée. J’espère que cela intéressera quelques forumistes, et comme je l’ai dit, je ne suis pas un spécialiste du sujet, donc j’espère bien en apprendre plus de la part de ceux dont la lanterne est plus éclairée que la mienne !

Hi there!

I’d love to hear about your experiences!

So, I’d like to learn Chinese with a SIMPLE and fairly quick method.

I won’t be able to study full-time, so I need a method I can pick up and put down depending on my schedule.

In addition to this personal learning method, have any of you taken classes? Are they essential?

Thanks for your replies here or via private messages!

See you soon! 😉

Je reviens du Tibet après avoir eu la chance de prendre le fameux train Pékin Lhassa. Des photos ici : http://www.flickr.com//photos/katozagros/sets/72157627464734580/show/

Je me tiens à la disposition de ceux qui voudraient des renseignements.

Bonjour, Une question aux spécialistes de la Chine : J'ai entendu dire récemment que désormais il serait possible à un européen de louer une voiture en Chine. Savez vous ce qu'il en est vraiment ? Et si cela se vérifie, est ce valable dans toutes les régions ?

Bonjour à toutes et à tous!

Je suis Alexandra, presque 30 ans, et dans quelques mois je m'apprête à partir en Inde et au Népal, et l'envie de faire un tour au Sichuan pour avoir un aperçu du Tibet me trotte de plus en plus dans la tête. Je ne suis jamais allée en Chine, je n'ai aucune idée du budget, de la facilité de prendre les transports, etc. Je pensais prendre un vol Delhi/Chengdu, et ensuite aller vers l'ouest. Je voyage avec un budget plutôt petit, est-ce qu'il est facile de trouver des guesthouses à petit prix, et sans réservation dans les campagnes chinoises, et de se rendre d'un village à l'autre en bus? J'aimerais aller voir Tagong, faire quelques randonnées... n'est-ce pas dangereux pour une femme seule? Je vous remercie par avance, et vous souhaite une belle journée!

Alexandra

bonjour, nous sommes bloques a xijiang, nous voulons comme indique sur le lonely planet effectuer la randonner de trois jours entre xijiang et paiyang, mais aucune personne ne peu nous renseigner sur le depart du chemin, Appel aux marcheurs attendons une reponse rapide car nous desirons partir demain et surtout de nous sortir de cette trape a touriste Merci Lakadiet