Tourisme dans les pays à risques
by Williama
This discussion is in French, the community’s main language.
Original post
bonjour,
Un nouveau concept de voyage tend à se développer et rencontre un certain succès. Des agences proposent à des groupes ou des voyageurs individuels d'effectuer un périple dans des pays qui connaissent des situations de guerre, d'anarchie comme l'Irak, l'Afghanistan, certains pays africains ou dans des régions en état de catastrophe comme Tchernobyl.
Besoin de témoigner, de se démarquer, voyeurisme... qu'en pensez-vous?
en réponse à : "... au hasard, ...tu t'ennuies ? "
Salut toi, mais non pas du tout😏bon mais après 15 jours de torpeur😉...
Le tourisme" Tchernobyl" a beaucoup de succès en Ukraine, avec organisation d'un pique nique dans la ville fantôme. Et en Irak les touristes sont escortés par des milices privées pour visiter les sites archéologiques etc... sinon il y a aussi la démarche presque similaire qui consiste à se rendre dans un pays juste après des troubles graves, massacres etc... et faire comme si rien ne s'était passé... tout est calme!
Salut toi, mais non pas du tout😏bon mais après 15 jours de torpeur😉...
Le tourisme" Tchernobyl" a beaucoup de succès en Ukraine, avec organisation d'un pique nique dans la ville fantôme. Et en Irak les touristes sont escortés par des milices privées pour visiter les sites archéologiques etc... sinon il y a aussi la démarche presque similaire qui consiste à se rendre dans un pays juste après des troubles graves, massacres etc... et faire comme si rien ne s'était passé... tout est calme!
Ciao,
Ca veut dire quoi "rencontre un certain succès" ? Tu as les chiffres (t'es toujours un peu approximatif, flou...) ? On a fait une étude sur les clients de ce genre de produit (il est innovant, ça devrait te plaire, non ?) ?
Bon, bref, avec les 2, 03 ébauches d'info que tu nous donnes, je n'en pense rien.
Catherine
Ca veut dire quoi "rencontre un certain succès" ? Tu as les chiffres (t'es toujours un peu approximatif, flou...) ? On a fait une étude sur les clients de ce genre de produit (il est innovant, ça devrait te plaire, non ?) ?
Bon, bref, avec les 2, 03 ébauches d'info que tu nous donnes, je n'en pense rien.
Catherine
Ciao,
Des stats!... mais c'est déjà entré dans l'ère de la banalisation!
Dans le Lonely planet sur l'Ukraine en page 100, tu as les détails pour l'organisation d'un séjour à Tchernobyl. Avec possibilité de rendre visite à l'un des 350 habitants de la zone. Déjeuner à Prypiat la ville fantôme. Mesurer la radioctivité est une des principales activités du séjour ainsi que prendre des Photos du cimetière des hélicos qui ont participé aux opérations de nettoyage et bien entendu du fameux réacteur N°4...
Il y a une liste d'opérateurs qui ont pignon sur rue à Kiev pour vous aider à organiser votre séjour environ 135 usd par personne. Tchernobyl devient un must parmi d'autres pour un voyage en Ukraine.
Ce n'est pas un mirage. Loin d'être confidentielle, cette nouvelle forme de voyage se développe avec une recherche d'émotions extrêmes, d'expériences déstabilisantes et hors des sentiers battus...peut être en perspective une nouvelle rubrique sur VF...
Ciao again,
Des stats!... mais c'est déjà entré dans l'ère de la banalisation!
Ca c'est une affirmation dont je ne peux vérifier si elle est fondée. Quel pourcentage du tourisme global représente ce tourisme là ? (c'est bien joli de lire le LP Ukraine -dans le Bradt version anglaise c'est page 163, mais ça ne donne pas une idée de l'ampleur du phénomène. Cela signale que ça existe et c'est tout.)
Loin d'être confidentielle, cette nouvelle forme de voyage se développe avec une recherche d'émotions extrêmes, d'expériences déstabilisantes et hors des sentiers battus...peut être en perspective une nouvelle rubrique sur VF...
Ce qui m'étonne c'est que tu as l'air de trouver cela extraordinaire... C'est pourtant dans la droite ligne de l'idéologie que tu professes sans cesse sur ces pages : invention de nouveaux produits à vendre, dépassement des limites qui étaient communément admises. Rien que de tout à fait normal dans le monde où nous vivons.
Catherine
Des stats!... mais c'est déjà entré dans l'ère de la banalisation!
Ca c'est une affirmation dont je ne peux vérifier si elle est fondée. Quel pourcentage du tourisme global représente ce tourisme là ? (c'est bien joli de lire le LP Ukraine -dans le Bradt version anglaise c'est page 163, mais ça ne donne pas une idée de l'ampleur du phénomène. Cela signale que ça existe et c'est tout.)
Loin d'être confidentielle, cette nouvelle forme de voyage se développe avec une recherche d'émotions extrêmes, d'expériences déstabilisantes et hors des sentiers battus...peut être en perspective une nouvelle rubrique sur VF...
Ce qui m'étonne c'est que tu as l'air de trouver cela extraordinaire... C'est pourtant dans la droite ligne de l'idéologie que tu professes sans cesse sur ces pages : invention de nouveaux produits à vendre, dépassement des limites qui étaient communément admises. Rien que de tout à fait normal dans le monde où nous vivons.
Catherine
... pourtant les exemples ne manquent pas où tout un chacun peut s'adonner aux "voyages extrêmes" même sous une forme "plus édulcorée". La Bolivie et la visite germinalesque des mines de Potosi L'Ouzbékistan et la visite des ex-ports de la mer d'Aral La Pologne et les camps d'extermination La visite des bas-fonds de Calcutta etc...
Il n'y a peut être pas dans ces exemples le flirt direct avec le danger comme pour Tchernobyl ou l'Afghanistan, mais il n'en reste pas moins une envie de côtoyer des situations extrêmes qui peuvent apparaître comme choquantes à ceux qui ne voient dans le voyage qu'une source d'émerveillement.
Je ne comprends rien à ton classement : tu mets dans le même sac étiqueté "voyage extrême" la visite des camps d'extermination nazi (tiens, je suis passée à Plotenzee en début de semaine, c'est extrême ?) qui fonctionnent comme des lieux de mémoire et les bas-fonds de Calcutta où la misère est contemporaine ?
Et l'autre sac porte l'étiquette "voyage merveilleux" ?
Mah ! (tu ne te foules pas beaucoup là 😛😏)
Catherine
Mah ! (tu ne te foules pas beaucoup là 😛😏)
Catherine
salut,
je viens de faire un petit tour sur la toile : tes "voyages extrêmes" ne sont pas monnaie courante, on dirait...😏 Et ce n'est pas étonnant : qui participerait à ces "voyages" ?
Je crois sincèrement que tous les lieux que tu mentionnes peuvent être envisagés autrement qu'à travers ce prisme du "flirt direct avec le danger".
Oui, faut être taré (enfin, à mon goût) pour faire ce genre de voyage, en troupeau, sans conscience et faire le jeu de ces TO qui vendent, au mieux du pèlerinage plan-plan, au pire de l'émotion galvaudée, de la sensiblerie, avec des "oh !" et des "beurk !".
Mais ce n'est pas parce que quelqu'un se rend à Tchernobyl, en Afghanistan ou dans les "bas-fonds de Calcutta" qu'il s'agit d'un illuminé inconscient, amateur de sensations fortes. S'il sait pourquoi il s'y rend... Ce qui suppose une démarche, une réflexion. Que j'imagine plutôt personnelles et solitaires. Un voyage intérieur avant d'être un voyage-déplacement.
À propos d'Auschwitz, Annette Wierworka écrivait "qu'il n'y a rien à voir à Auschwitz si on ne sait pas déjà ce qu'il y a à y voir", "que le savoir, dans ce type de lieu, c'est celui que l'on apporte avec soi". Valable pour tes autres exemples, je pense, qu'ils soient des lieux de mémoire ou sous les feux de l'actualité (c'est le cas de le dire). Alors après se pose la question : qu'est-ce que cela apporte de plus d'y aller ? À chacun sa réponse...
Franchement, je ne crois pas du tout à cette nouvelle forme de tourisme que tu nous présentes.
Quant à ne voir que deux catégories de voyages (les "extrêmes" et les "sources d'émerveillement")... Je vais finir par croire que tu es incapable d'avoir un mode de raisonnement autre que binaire.😏
je viens de faire un petit tour sur la toile : tes "voyages extrêmes" ne sont pas monnaie courante, on dirait...😏 Et ce n'est pas étonnant : qui participerait à ces "voyages" ?
Je crois sincèrement que tous les lieux que tu mentionnes peuvent être envisagés autrement qu'à travers ce prisme du "flirt direct avec le danger".
Oui, faut être taré (enfin, à mon goût) pour faire ce genre de voyage, en troupeau, sans conscience et faire le jeu de ces TO qui vendent, au mieux du pèlerinage plan-plan, au pire de l'émotion galvaudée, de la sensiblerie, avec des "oh !" et des "beurk !".
Mais ce n'est pas parce que quelqu'un se rend à Tchernobyl, en Afghanistan ou dans les "bas-fonds de Calcutta" qu'il s'agit d'un illuminé inconscient, amateur de sensations fortes. S'il sait pourquoi il s'y rend... Ce qui suppose une démarche, une réflexion. Que j'imagine plutôt personnelles et solitaires. Un voyage intérieur avant d'être un voyage-déplacement.
À propos d'Auschwitz, Annette Wierworka écrivait "qu'il n'y a rien à voir à Auschwitz si on ne sait pas déjà ce qu'il y a à y voir", "que le savoir, dans ce type de lieu, c'est celui que l'on apporte avec soi". Valable pour tes autres exemples, je pense, qu'ils soient des lieux de mémoire ou sous les feux de l'actualité (c'est le cas de le dire). Alors après se pose la question : qu'est-ce que cela apporte de plus d'y aller ? À chacun sa réponse...
Franchement, je ne crois pas du tout à cette nouvelle forme de tourisme que tu nous présentes.
Quant à ne voir que deux catégories de voyages (les "extrêmes" et les "sources d'émerveillement")... Je vais finir par croire que tu es incapable d'avoir un mode de raisonnement autre que binaire.😏
Il y a un reportage qui est passé à la télé il y a quelques mois (sur A2 je crois). On y voyait un groupe de touristes franco-belge en Irak. Il s'agissait de personnes plutôt autour de la cinquantaine, en couple qui avaient déjà beaucoup voyagé et qui recherchaient autre chose que la ballade bien balisée.
Le mot qui revenait le plus souvent pour justifier leur démarche était celui de témoignage. Ces personnes n'avaient rien de décervelées ou baroudeuses. Elles étaient toutes très réfléchies voire un peu austères. En fait c'est un Irak en version light qui leur était présenté. L'essentiel de leur périple se déroulait en effet dans une région du Kurdistan pacifiée et plutôt sûre, bien qu'ils étaient encadrés en permanence par une auto-mitrailleuse dans leurs déplacements. Le TO était rôdé et se félicitait du nouvel engouement pour ces destinations à risques.
Sinon pour l'Afghanistan il existe des guides chez LP et le Petit Futé...
Rien n'arrête la marche inexorable du tourisme même sous sa forme la plus inattendue et controversée.
Mouais, çà fait pas mal d'années que ce genre de "circuits" existe.
Je me souviens d'un TO "spécial"qui proposait quelques coins chauds au sud-Liban, en Irak et dans d'autres zones de (t)rêves...
Pourquoi pas, chacun fait ce qu'il veut.
Heureusement que certains voyageurs viennent parfois raconter leur traversée de l'Afghanistan, comme si de rien n'était, venant émerveiller notre quotidien et nous rappeler s'il le fallait, que la vie est un peu plus complexe qu'une dépêche A.F.P.
Personnellement j'ai du mal avec les T.O et je préfère aller à Vierzon seul à pied qu'à Kandahar entouré de barbouzes, d'interprètes et tutti quanti, sans aucune liberté.
Donc oui pour les zones à "risques" si çà chante le voyageur, mais autant y aller seul, sans ces marchands de "sensationnel" qui vendent leurs produits sous couvert d'un voyeurisme ou d'un héroïsme de mauvais aloi.
ps : Un peu frileux ton post Williama, tu aurais pu le lancer ainsi "Tourisme dans les pays à risques avec ses enfants en bas-âge." çà aurait pimenté la discussion.😉
Je me souviens d'un TO "spécial"qui proposait quelques coins chauds au sud-Liban, en Irak et dans d'autres zones de (t)rêves...
Pourquoi pas, chacun fait ce qu'il veut.
Heureusement que certains voyageurs viennent parfois raconter leur traversée de l'Afghanistan, comme si de rien n'était, venant émerveiller notre quotidien et nous rappeler s'il le fallait, que la vie est un peu plus complexe qu'une dépêche A.F.P.
Personnellement j'ai du mal avec les T.O et je préfère aller à Vierzon seul à pied qu'à Kandahar entouré de barbouzes, d'interprètes et tutti quanti, sans aucune liberté.
Donc oui pour les zones à "risques" si çà chante le voyageur, mais autant y aller seul, sans ces marchands de "sensationnel" qui vendent leurs produits sous couvert d'un voyeurisme ou d'un héroïsme de mauvais aloi.
ps : Un peu frileux ton post Williama, tu aurais pu le lancer ainsi "Tourisme dans les pays à risques avec ses enfants en bas-âge." çà aurait pimenté la discussion.😉
Les voyages améliorent les sages et empirent les sots.
Il y a un reportage qui est passé à la télé il y a quelques mois (sur A2 je crois). On y voyait un groupe de touristes franco-belge en Irak. Il s'agissait de personnes plutôt autour de la cinquantaine, en couple qui avaient déjà beaucoup voyagé et qui recherchaient autre chose que la ballade bien balisée.
Le mot qui revenait le plus souvent pour justifier leur démarche était celui de témoignage. Ces personnes n'avaient rien de décervelées ou baroudeuses. Elles étaient toutes très réfléchies voire un peu austères. En fait c'est un Irak en version light qui leur était présenté. L'essentiel de leur périple se déroulait en effet dans une région du Kurdistan pacifiée et plutôt sûre, bien qu'ils étaient encadrés en permanence par une auto-mitrailleuse dans leurs déplacements. Le TO était rôdé et se félicitait du nouvel engouement pour ces destinations à risques.
Si c'est de "Noël en Irak" dont tu parles, les kamikazes en question étaient surtout des chrétiens allant à la rencontre d'autres chrétiens. Ils étaient d'ailleurs accompagnés d'un prêtre.
C'est quelque chose de très marginal, ça peut etre intéressant si on à un objectif à atteindre, si on revient dans son pays d'origine, si on fait des recherches archéologiques ou encore un travail avec une ONG, mais si c'est seulement pour filer du fric à des T.O ou pour se faire des petites frayeurs dans des pays en guerre c'est ridicule. Si quelqu'un cherche un endroit un peu chaud je vous conseillerai Cuidad Juarez (Mexico): 357 homicides en 2009 (pour l'instant) (Ouest France d'aujourd'hui)
BONJOUR
je répond à tout le monde
il y aura toujours des touristes adepte de voyeurisme, qui diront "j'ai vu ça etc.."ne serait ce que quelques minutes, et ça les fait mousser.mais c'était en toute sécurité, avec les vigiles dans un secteur sécurisé etc.mais quand ils racontent à leurs potes, ça jete, ça fait aventurier.
j'ai pris des raffales de kalashnikof au baloshistan et je ne m'en suis jamais fait prévaloir;j'étais là à ce moment là, c'est tout, j'aurais pu y laisser un morceau de ma peau, j'en suis sorti clean, et bien tant mieux mais ce n'est pas génial;ça fait parti du voyage, c'est tout.
avant de parler il faut aller voir;la gravité des situations se mesure, certes, mais pas avec l'oeil du touriste.
laisser votre caméra, appareil photo, et carte bleue à la maison.
et essayez de partager une tranche de vie dans ces pays dit en guerre ou à risque, vous n'aurez meme pas envie d'en parler...vous y penserez.
yoyo
bonsoir,
vous êtes un peu... "brut de décoffrage"... Mais je partage l'idée qu'il y a des situations dont on a pas envie de parler... auxquelles on pense.... qu'elles soient "tragiques", "extrêmes", ou non. D'ailleurs, avec votre message, je vous trouve déjà trop ... bavard.
vous êtes un peu... "brut de décoffrage"... Mais je partage l'idée qu'il y a des situations dont on a pas envie de parler... auxquelles on pense.... qu'elles soient "tragiques", "extrêmes", ou non. D'ailleurs, avec votre message, je vous trouve déjà trop ... bavard.
bonsoir aussi
"brut de décoffrage"????je ne vois pas trop à quoi ça correspond!
trop bavard! mais je n'ai rien dit, à part une vague opinion sur le tourisme de voyeur de misère que l'on tente de déveloper.faire croire à des gens qu'ils ont vécu quelque chose d'extraordinaire en "admirant "la misere d'autui qui est de fait ordinaire pour eux.leur faire croire qu'ils ont été au coeur d'une actualité dramatique....et tout ça ..en toute sécurité.
non je ne suis pas bavard, peut etre meme devrais je me reprocher de ne pas parler assez.cette pratique devrait, à mon sens etre dénoncée.Ces touristes, adeptes "d'émotions extremes"sont victimes de ce business, à moins qu'ils ne soient à la recherche "d'un vécu fantastique" pour épater leur entourage, et donc consentant.la beaufitude est exploitable ...et exploitée
j'espere ne pas avoir été trop "bavard" à votre gout ....ni brut de décoffrage.néanmoins j'acepterai volontiers votre bavardage sans rien décoffrer
yoyo
HO!
j'ai pas piqué la vache!
t'as de l'humour?
peux tu m'expliquer la formule "brut de décoffrage"
un truc ringard! c'est pas djeun's!
yoyo
...et justement c'est là que vous n'y êtes pas! ces gens qui vont dans ces pays à risques ne sont pas des kamikazes. Ils y vont sincèrement pour témoigner et non pour frimer. Dans leur esprit, ils voyagent par exemple pour soutenir les chrétiens d'Irak, ou les populations en désespérance de Colombie, faire redécouvrir les richesses archéologiques d' Afghanistan, comprendre la misère des favellas de Rio etc... Je ne dis pas que c'est bien ou mal! qu'il faut le faire ou pas! cette question ne m'intéresse pas.
Mais c'est une nouvelle forme de voyage qui se développe et de leur point de vue, elle est "moins idiote" que la simple visite photographique du Machu Pichu ou la découverte convenue du Taj Mahal.
hello man
la petite vache que j'ai adoptée dans l'orisa est un sujet d'humour qui fait se tordre de rire tes potes? Mais je ne vois pas le rapport avec le métro.alors soit je ne capte pas ton niveau humoristique, soit il ne m'atteint pas, soit je n'ai pas la capacité de me mettre à son niveau.
plus sérieux, l'endroit "ou je ne suis pas" bien sur des quantités de gens font des démarches interressantes et s'impliquent dans des "causes" défendables et peu défendues telles que tu le dis, et c'est louable.Mais reconnais qu'une quantité de blaireaux se lavent la conscience et se dedouanent par le simple fait d'avoir vu cette misere, et pire un busines s'est instauré.ça se vend, des rapaces osent vendre ce voyage....alors ! pardon! quand des touristes numérotés se pavanent au machu pichu ou devant le taj mahal, ils participent à une économie locale, quand ils prennent en photo un gosse qui creve de faim en inde ils font quoi? .dans mes propos je voulais simplement dénoncer ce tourisme miséreux et surtout ceux qui l'exploitent.alors la façon la "moins idiote" comme tu le dis de voyager...c'est la quelle?????moi je donne mes sous à ceux, qui à mes yeux en ont le plus besoin.la misere est omniprésente et je suis sans doute le misérable de quelqu'un..mais je sais qu'il y a plus misérable que moi.
P.S. ma petite vache, je l'ai achetée à un indien dans la desh qui voulait la vendre à un musulman qui l'aurait sans doute bouffée puis je l'ai offert en cadeau de mariage à un autre indien, je ne sais pas si la vache s'en est rendu compte mais elle a du y gagner quelque chose.
yoyo
En réponse à "alors ! pardon! quand des touristes numérotés se pavanent au machu pichu ou devant le taj mahal, ils participent à une économie locale, quand ils prennent en photo un gosse qui creve de faim en inde ils font quoi?"
Salut Fernandel!!! (on t'as reconnu dans la vache et le prisonnier!)Mais en règle générale dans un voyage, ils font les 2! photographier le Taj Mahal puis la misère des bas-fonds et les tas d'ordures...le tout enrobé de mysthicisme parce que c'est comme ça que nous voyons l'Inde dans notre culture.
Le tourisme "à risques" ou "voyeuriste" est déjà intégré dans la démarche lambda de tout voyageur individuel. Visiter les mines de Potosi en Bolivie par exemple. Avant de commencer la visite le guide te fait acheter au marché local des bâtons de dynamite et des feuilles de coca pour offrir aux mineurs. Dans la mine les conditions de sécurité sont rudimentaires et ne parlons pas de la ventilation, des conditions de travail, les accidents fréquents etc...pendant 3h tu as droit à ta dose d'émotions avec passage dans un boyau, offrande à la divinité locale avec rasades d'alcool à 10h du mat et explosion extérieure. L'agence est sensée reverser une partie des bénéfices aux mineurs, donc tout le monde est de conivance et y trouve son compte🤪. On doit retrouver le même principe dans les bidonvilles à Rio et ailleurs. Tout ça est bien rôdé et correspond à une demande...les paysages ne suffisent plus, il faut des émotions. Et plus la globalisation avec son lot d'uniformisation avance, plus ce concept de voyage/émotion se développera.
Salut Fernandel!!! (on t'as reconnu dans la vache et le prisonnier!)Mais en règle générale dans un voyage, ils font les 2! photographier le Taj Mahal puis la misère des bas-fonds et les tas d'ordures...le tout enrobé de mysthicisme parce que c'est comme ça que nous voyons l'Inde dans notre culture.
Le tourisme "à risques" ou "voyeuriste" est déjà intégré dans la démarche lambda de tout voyageur individuel. Visiter les mines de Potosi en Bolivie par exemple. Avant de commencer la visite le guide te fait acheter au marché local des bâtons de dynamite et des feuilles de coca pour offrir aux mineurs. Dans la mine les conditions de sécurité sont rudimentaires et ne parlons pas de la ventilation, des conditions de travail, les accidents fréquents etc...pendant 3h tu as droit à ta dose d'émotions avec passage dans un boyau, offrande à la divinité locale avec rasades d'alcool à 10h du mat et explosion extérieure. L'agence est sensée reverser une partie des bénéfices aux mineurs, donc tout le monde est de conivance et y trouve son compte🤪. On doit retrouver le même principe dans les bidonvilles à Rio et ailleurs. Tout ça est bien rôdé et correspond à une demande...les paysages ne suffisent plus, il faut des émotions. Et plus la globalisation avec son lot d'uniformisation avance, plus ce concept de voyage/émotion se développera.
Hello
Dans ton sujet et dans tes réponses, tu confond pas mal de chose. Tu as d'un côté les touristes qui vont aller dans des zones à risque par voyeurisme (pour toi les camps nazi en fond partis ...), comme les favelas, l'Irak, L'afgha ... D'un autres côté tu as les gens qui veulent aller visité une partie du monde extrèmement riche, culturellement, vestiges archéologique, témoignage de l'histoire.
Pour bon nombre de pays déchiré par les guerres ont pourrait confondre ces deux types de voyages: * L'irak (notament le reportage sur le kurdistnat sur france2), un des pays les plus riches et les mieux concervé archéologiquement (avant la guerre), mais ou la guerre fait rage. * LAfghanistant, berceaux d'une des civilisation les plus belles au monde ou des courants de pensé ce sont entrechoqué produisant des verstiges hors norme, le minaret de Bam (pas sur de l'ortho), ce qui reste des Boudha (en attendant que l'on trouve enfin le boudha couché), la région de Bamian en général, le plateaux du nord avec leurs grottes. Pourtant ravagé par une guerre civile (ou contre le terorisme). * La province du Sichuan, ravagé par un tremblement de terre inouï, mais pourtant lieu d'une trés grande beauté. (ce ne sont que trois exemples)
Tu trouvera dans ces pays des voyeurs, en quette de frissons, certe eu font ce qu'il veules ..., mais tu y trouvera aussi des passionné qui sont près à prendre des risques "calculé" pour vivre leurs passion (archéo, montagne, histoire), pour aller sur des lieux qui hantent leurs esprits depuis si longtemps et qui sont enfin accessible (aller à Bamian pendant la guerre avec les Russe était hors de question, je t'en parle pas avec les taliban, avant ces deux guerre j'était pas née).
Philo
Dans ton sujet et dans tes réponses, tu confond pas mal de chose. Tu as d'un côté les touristes qui vont aller dans des zones à risque par voyeurisme (pour toi les camps nazi en fond partis ...), comme les favelas, l'Irak, L'afgha ... D'un autres côté tu as les gens qui veulent aller visité une partie du monde extrèmement riche, culturellement, vestiges archéologique, témoignage de l'histoire.
Pour bon nombre de pays déchiré par les guerres ont pourrait confondre ces deux types de voyages: * L'irak (notament le reportage sur le kurdistnat sur france2), un des pays les plus riches et les mieux concervé archéologiquement (avant la guerre), mais ou la guerre fait rage. * LAfghanistant, berceaux d'une des civilisation les plus belles au monde ou des courants de pensé ce sont entrechoqué produisant des verstiges hors norme, le minaret de Bam (pas sur de l'ortho), ce qui reste des Boudha (en attendant que l'on trouve enfin le boudha couché), la région de Bamian en général, le plateaux du nord avec leurs grottes. Pourtant ravagé par une guerre civile (ou contre le terorisme). * La province du Sichuan, ravagé par un tremblement de terre inouï, mais pourtant lieu d'une trés grande beauté. (ce ne sont que trois exemples)
Tu trouvera dans ces pays des voyeurs, en quette de frissons, certe eu font ce qu'il veules ..., mais tu y trouvera aussi des passionné qui sont près à prendre des risques "calculé" pour vivre leurs passion (archéo, montagne, histoire), pour aller sur des lieux qui hantent leurs esprits depuis si longtemps et qui sont enfin accessible (aller à Bamian pendant la guerre avec les Russe était hors de question, je t'en parle pas avec les taliban, avant ces deux guerre j'était pas née).
Philo
"J'ai refait tous les calculs, notre projet est irréalisable, il ne nous reste plus qu'une chose à faire, le réaliser". Latecoere
dyslexique
des voyeurs, en quette de frissons
et pire, des voyeurs en quéquette frissonnante 😉
et pire, des voyeurs en quéquette frissonnante 😉
salut,
depuis l'autre jour j'essaye de comprendre ton sujet de discussion.😊
Eurêka ! J'ai trouvé ! (pire que le jeu des photos)
Alors, en fait.... Cet été, tu prévois un petit tour en Ukraine, et un autre (dans la foulée ?) en Ouzbékistan. C'est ça, non ? Et... faire un p'tit tour à Tchernobyl, au fond de toi, ça te tente pas mal. La mer d'Aral aussi. Et qui sait, peut-être Auschwitz à l'aller ?
Mais... ça t'embête quand même un peu, n'est-ce pas ? Mmmh, est-ce que c'est "éthique", "moral", tout ça ? (surtout depuis que tu es au Vatican😏)
Alors tu lances un sujet "alla williama", que tu alimentes "alla williama" (= on comprend pas trop où tu veux en venir), mélangeant les genres..."alla williama" (voyeurisme/ témoignage, passé/ présent, etc), pour prendre la température.
En espérant, dans quelques mois, être considéré comme un pionnier et un témoin, et non comme un voyeur malsain.
Gagné ? 😛
depuis l'autre jour j'essaye de comprendre ton sujet de discussion.😊
Eurêka ! J'ai trouvé ! (pire que le jeu des photos)
Alors, en fait.... Cet été, tu prévois un petit tour en Ukraine, et un autre (dans la foulée ?) en Ouzbékistan. C'est ça, non ? Et... faire un p'tit tour à Tchernobyl, au fond de toi, ça te tente pas mal. La mer d'Aral aussi. Et qui sait, peut-être Auschwitz à l'aller ?
Mais... ça t'embête quand même un peu, n'est-ce pas ? Mmmh, est-ce que c'est "éthique", "moral", tout ça ? (surtout depuis que tu es au Vatican😏)
Alors tu lances un sujet "alla williama", que tu alimentes "alla williama" (= on comprend pas trop où tu veux en venir), mélangeant les genres..."alla williama" (voyeurisme/ témoignage, passé/ présent, etc), pour prendre la température.
En espérant, dans quelques mois, être considéré comme un pionnier et un témoin, et non comme un voyeur malsain.
Gagné ? 😛
Alors tu lances un sujet "alla williama"
Au Vatican, pour ne pas froisser les disciples de Mahomet, on ne dit jamais "alla williama"...
"alléluia williama" à la rigueur...😇
Au Vatican, pour ne pas froisser les disciples de Mahomet, on ne dit jamais "alla williama"...
"alléluia williama" à la rigueur...😇
Les voyages améliorent les sages et empirent les sots.
salut Philo!
oui, on aura toujours une bonne raison pour justifier sa présence quelque part. Mais parfois tu te demandes si tout cela une fois traduit en terme de voyage, ne se transforme pas en vaste pantalonnade! Pour en revenir à mon exemple des mines de Potosi, c'était une étape qui me tenait à coeur. J'aurais aimé rencontré des mineurs, des syndicalistes et passer un long moment avec eux et aussi des responsables de la mine car il s'agit en fait d'un énorme complexe. Alors que la visite est une sorte de Disneyland où on fait joujoue avec de la dynamite et tu te retrouves à arroser avec de l'alcool la tronche et la zézette d'un dieu en carton pâte au fond d'une galerie...
oui, on aura toujours une bonne raison pour justifier sa présence quelque part. Mais parfois tu te demandes si tout cela une fois traduit en terme de voyage, ne se transforme pas en vaste pantalonnade! Pour en revenir à mon exemple des mines de Potosi, c'était une étape qui me tenait à coeur. J'aurais aimé rencontré des mineurs, des syndicalistes et passer un long moment avec eux et aussi des responsables de la mine car il s'agit en fait d'un énorme complexe. Alors que la visite est une sorte de Disneyland où on fait joujoue avec de la dynamite et tu te retrouves à arroser avec de l'alcool la tronche et la zézette d'un dieu en carton pâte au fond d'une galerie...
"tu te retrouves à arroser avec de l'alcool la tronche et la zézette d'un dieu en carton pâte au fond d'une galerie... "
Je pense qu'il y'a des personnes pour qui ce rythe (magnifiquement décris dans Pekin Express ... 😄 je sort) à vraiment une signification !
Philo
Je pense qu'il y'a des personnes pour qui ce rythe (magnifiquement décris dans Pekin Express ... 😄 je sort) à vraiment une signification !
Philo
"J'ai refait tous les calculs, notre projet est irréalisable, il ne nous reste plus qu'une chose à faire, le réaliser". Latecoere
dyslexique
Hello
Je ne m'offusque en rien, en faite c'est bizard, mais je n'est aucune logique dans l'écris, (remarque dans le reste) ... 😏
Philo
Je ne m'offusque en rien, en faite c'est bizard, mais je n'est aucune logique dans l'écris, (remarque dans le reste) ... 😏
Philo
"J'ai refait tous les calculs, notre projet est irréalisable, il ne nous reste plus qu'une chose à faire, le réaliser". Latecoere
dyslexique
Citation des voyeurs, en quette de frissons
et pire, des voyeurs en quéquette frissonnante
Longtemps que je n'etais pas tombee (aie!) sur une belle piaferie comme ca! eclat de rire immediat! c'est encore plus marrant quand c'est placer dans une discussion "j'ai rien d'autre a faire que de polemiquer sur du vent".
Je sors... qu'on me linche c'est pas grave, je serai deja sortie.😛
Lilie
et pire, des voyeurs en quéquette frissonnante

Longtemps que je n'etais pas tombee (aie!) sur une belle piaferie comme ca! eclat de rire immediat! c'est encore plus marrant quand c'est placer dans une discussion "j'ai rien d'autre a faire que de polemiquer sur du vent".
Je sors... qu'on me linche c'est pas grave, je serai deja sortie.😛
Lilie
https://raconte-moi-l-irlande.com/ - Pour en découvrir toujours plus sur l'Irlande !
en réponse à : "... au hasard, ...tu t'ennuies ? "
Salut toi, mais non pas du tout😏bon mais après 15 jours de torpeur😉...
Le tourisme" Tchernobyl" a beaucoup de succès en Ukraine, avec organisation d'un pique nique dans la ville fantôme. Et en Irak les touristes sont escortés par des milices privées pour visiter les sites archéologiques etc... sinon il y a aussi la démarche presque similaire qui consiste à se rendre dans un pays juste après des troubles graves, massacres etc... et faire comme si rien ne s'était passé... tout est calme!
J'ai mis en rouge de belles aneries. Peux-tu citer tes sources? Connais-tu Slavutich? la ville peut-on dire jumelle de Tchernobyl.
La cite de Tchernobyl n'est ouverte qu'a des equipes d'ingenieurs de beaucoup de nationalite parmi lesquels des ingenieurs d'EDF (France), il y a des italiens, des anglais, des americains...des allemands... et TOUS habitent Slavutich qui se trouve a environ 50 km a vol d'oiseau de Tchernobyl; pour y aller, ils ont un laisser-passer permanent pour la Georgie qu'ils sont obliges de traverser quotidiennement sinon ils seraient obliges de faire un immense detour par Kiev. Les survivants de cette catastrophe habitent a Slavutich.
Salut toi, mais non pas du tout😏bon mais après 15 jours de torpeur😉...
Le tourisme" Tchernobyl" a beaucoup de succès en Ukraine, avec organisation d'un pique nique dans la ville fantôme. Et en Irak les touristes sont escortés par des milices privées pour visiter les sites archéologiques etc... sinon il y a aussi la démarche presque similaire qui consiste à se rendre dans un pays juste après des troubles graves, massacres etc... et faire comme si rien ne s'était passé... tout est calme!
J'ai mis en rouge de belles aneries. Peux-tu citer tes sources? Connais-tu Slavutich? la ville peut-on dire jumelle de Tchernobyl.
La cite de Tchernobyl n'est ouverte qu'a des equipes d'ingenieurs de beaucoup de nationalite parmi lesquels des ingenieurs d'EDF (France), il y a des italiens, des anglais, des americains...des allemands... et TOUS habitent Slavutich qui se trouve a environ 50 km a vol d'oiseau de Tchernobyl; pour y aller, ils ont un laisser-passer permanent pour la Georgie qu'ils sont obliges de traverser quotidiennement sinon ils seraient obliges de faire un immense detour par Kiev. Les survivants de cette catastrophe habitent a Slavutich.
...et non ce ne sont pas des âneries...
en page 100 du Lonely Planet sur l'Ukraine en version française, tu trouveras tous les détails pour organiser une petite ballade dans la ville fantôme de Prypiat et te faire photographier devant le réacteur N°4 et son sarcophage pour environ 135E... il y a aussi au programme une bonne bouffe prévue...attention les prix varient beaucoup d'une agence à l'autre n'hésite pas à faire jouer la concurrence😉
en page 100 du Lonely Planet sur l'Ukraine en version française, tu trouveras tous les détails pour organiser une petite ballade dans la ville fantôme de Prypiat et te faire photographier devant le réacteur N°4 et son sarcophage pour environ 135E... il y a aussi au programme une bonne bouffe prévue...attention les prix varient beaucoup d'une agence à l'autre n'hésite pas à faire jouer la concurrence😉
pour y aller, ils ont un laisser-passer permanent pour la Georgie qu'ils sont obliges de traverser quotidiennement sinon ils seraient obliges de faire un immense detour par Kiev.
Bonjour,
ne serait-ce pas plutôt la Biélorussie qu'ils traversent quotidiennement ? La Georgie ça fait un sacré détour !!!😛
Bonjour,
ne serait-ce pas plutôt la Biélorussie qu'ils traversent quotidiennement ? La Georgie ça fait un sacré détour !!!😛
Fabienne
...et non ce ne sont pas des âneries...
tu trouveras tous les détails pour organiser une petite ballade dans la ville fantôme de Prypiat
Âneries non, mais il est notoirement connu, qu'en raison des irradiations subies, les hommes de Pryiapt sont montés comme des ânes...😊
tu trouveras tous les détails pour organiser une petite ballade dans la ville fantôme de Prypiat
Âneries non, mais il est notoirement connu, qu'en raison des irradiations subies, les hommes de Pryiapt sont montés comme des ânes...😊
Les voyages améliorent les sages et empirent les sots.
Oui, il souffrent de priapisme
...et il est fortement déconseillé dans la zone de se baisser pour ramasser les champignons 😮
C'est moins risqué depuis que les maires des communes de la région ont décidé de taxer le cèpe...😊
C'est moins risqué depuis que les maires des communes de la région ont décidé de taxer le cèpe...😊
Les voyages améliorent les sages et empirent les sots.
et pire, des voyeurs en quéquette frissonnante
Histoire liée (ânneries) :
Dans un saloon un homme rentre il commande a boire puis sort 5 pièces de monnaie les lance en l air sort son pistolet tire 5 fois, Les pièces retombent avec chacune un trou parfait au centre Et là, il se présente Je m appelle Bill, Buffalo Bill
Un autre homme accoudé au comptoir lance 6 pièces tire et les 6 pièces : retombent avec chacune un trou parfait au centre, Il baisse son pantalon et son slip et apparaissent 3 énormes ou tout homme normalement constitué en a 2 normales, Et là, il se présente : Je m appelle Bill, Tcherno bill
Histoire liée (ânneries) :
Dans un saloon un homme rentre il commande a boire puis sort 5 pièces de monnaie les lance en l air sort son pistolet tire 5 fois, Les pièces retombent avec chacune un trou parfait au centre Et là, il se présente Je m appelle Bill, Buffalo Bill
Un autre homme accoudé au comptoir lance 6 pièces tire et les 6 pièces : retombent avec chacune un trou parfait au centre, Il baisse son pantalon et son slip et apparaissent 3 énormes ou tout homme normalement constitué en a 2 normales, Et là, il se présente : Je m appelle Bill, Tcherno bill
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More discussions
Hi! It was totally by chance that I stumbled upon VoyageForum (an ad online and a story lol), and I’ve been reading some really old posts from 2011 about Thai massage schools—discussions on how to get by, accommodation, prices, etc. It reminded me of my own experience: I kept things simple by staying with a local family during my entire trip. I only shared all the expenses with them, which, I’ll admit, was super cheap… and I often traveled with them, which naturally opened a lot of doors for me. To start, at the school in Salaya, my Thai friend immediately connected me with Teacher Phong (the school’s mentor and teacher of teachers, a former monk). I was supposed to join a group session with other foreigners, but for some reason I don’t know, I got two days of private lessons for free with this expert… incredible! And on top of that, he loved France! It was an amazing experience. I "discovered" massage by chance—the Thai family just told me: "Try it, you’ll see!" (I’d had a pretty intense massage in the capital before 😅… but the next day, I felt unbelievably great!))
Every morning, I’d take a taxi (chosen by the Thai family at prices that beat all the competition) to this school—I’ve forgotten the name of the little village now… right in the heart of the countryside. Then, in the evenings, I’d keep practicing massage on all the family members… and they’d teach me Thai at the same time!))
Since then, I’ve practiced a bit, with lots of positive feedback. Following Teacher Phong’s advice—he thought my pressure was deep, firm, and precise—he strongly encouraged me to take this seriously.
I love Thailand so much. It’s a whole different way of living… and it’s a real blessing, even if I couldn’t live there full-time. Anyway, that was an unforgettable memory, and sometimes the Thai family and I still say hi—from 2011, 2013… right up to today!
Take care, everyone! !
Every morning, I’d take a taxi (chosen by the Thai family at prices that beat all the competition) to this school—I’ve forgotten the name of the little village now… right in the heart of the countryside. Then, in the evenings, I’d keep practicing massage on all the family members… and they’d teach me Thai at the same time!))
Since then, I’ve practiced a bit, with lots of positive feedback. Following Teacher Phong’s advice—he thought my pressure was deep, firm, and precise—he strongly encouraged me to take this seriously.
I love Thailand so much. It’s a whole different way of living… and it’s a real blessing, even if I couldn’t live there full-time. Anyway, that was an unforgettable memory, and sometimes the Thai family and I still say hi—from 2011, 2013… right up to today!
Take care, everyone! !
Hi everyone,
I’m Loulou, a French expat who’s been living in Southeast Asia for about fifteen years, currently in Phnom Penh, Cambodia. A passionate walker at heart, I’ve trekked in Nepal (Thorung La, Mardi Himal), India, Vietnam, and I’m still planning new hikes (Char Dham, Langtang, Annapurna).
I’ve just published my first travel journal, recounting three months of walking and encounters across India. A portion of the sales goes to an educational center I support in Kep, for children whose parents work in the salt marshes.
I’m also working on a second book about Nepal with a musician friend, focusing on the Mardi Himal trek—two independent perspectives on the same journey.
Happy to swap stories with you about the Himalayas, India, Southeast Asia, or just the urge to hit the road and walk far from home.
Safe travels,
Loulou
Hi everyone,
Who’d like to share their best and worst travel memories in a few lines? For me, it’s watching the TAJ MAHAL at sunrise and getting chased by dogs at the top of a mountain pass in GREECE on the way back from ISTANBUL. THANKS GUYS
Who’d like to share their best and worst travel memories in a few lines? For me, it’s watching the TAJ MAHAL at sunrise and getting chased by dogs at the top of a mountain pass in GREECE on the way back from ISTANBUL. THANKS GUYS
"It seems to me that poverty would be less painful in the sun" wrote Aznavour...
Not sure...😕 Who can prove that people in hot countries are happier than others? What do you think?
Is it better to live in Montpellier than in Lille? Are the Pygmies happier than the Inuit? Are Canadians less happy than the people of Louisiana? Are there more French expats in hot countries?
And your travels? Do you choose your destinations based on the climate? Do you rejoice when a bit of sunshine appears?
Not sure...😕 Who can prove that people in hot countries are happier than others? What do you think?
Is it better to live in Montpellier than in Lille? Are the Pygmies happier than the Inuit? Are Canadians less happy than the people of Louisiana? Are there more French expats in hot countries?
And your travels? Do you choose your destinations based on the climate? Do you rejoice when a bit of sunshine appears?
Hi everyone, just this once I’m not posting for a travel story, but to share a thought for Venezuela.
If you didn’t know—since it’s not making headlines—the country was hit by two 7.5-magnitude earthquakes last week. Over 2,200 people have died, more than 50,000 are missing, and some coastal towns have been completely destroyed. Maybe when the scale of the humanitarian crisis becomes clear, our media will cover it a bit more... especially since earthquakes with this many casualties usually make the front page, but there’s been nothing in France.
So here’s a thought for this country, which, whatever you think of its politics, is a true jewel of South America, both for its landscapes and its people.
If you didn’t know—since it’s not making headlines—the country was hit by two 7.5-magnitude earthquakes last week. Over 2,200 people have died, more than 50,000 are missing, and some coastal towns have been completely destroyed. Maybe when the scale of the humanitarian crisis becomes clear, our media will cover it a bit more... especially since earthquakes with this many casualties usually make the front page, but there’s been nothing in France.
So here’s a thought for this country, which, whatever you think of its politics, is a true jewel of South America, both for its landscapes and its people.
hi there
I’d like to invite you to discover my coastal province in central Vietnam: Quang Ngai.
This year, my province has really improved its infrastructure—mountains, countryside, and sea are all authentic here.
No harassers or thieves, and no Russians either.
A local lunch costs around 1 €.
A *** hotel room is about 25 €, and you can find hotels right on My Khe Beach.
We have a specialty: *banh xeo*—10 crepes for just 1.5 €.
You can rent motorbikes to explore the province and maybe visit the many ethnic minorities.
I live here—I’m not selling anything, but I can help if needed (my father-in-law is a traditional Vietnamese doctor and he’s very skilled).
We're planning to spend a month in Vietnam. Is hiring a guide helpful?
Hi everyone! 😉
I’m Typhaine, 35 years old. Five years ago, I left France for a solo round-the-world trip—no planes, just a van, hitchhiking, cycling, and even a canoe in the Amazon! Today, I work as a naturalist guide in Argentine Patagonia.
Wherever I go, my compass stays the same: observing and photographing wildlife, which I deeply admire and respect.
My project: I’d love to share this experience through a sustainable, authentic, and immersive nature tourism initiative. But to build something meaningful, I need to understand how other nature enthusiasts experience their own adventures.
If you:
Are over 20 years old
Have a true passion for Nature
Have already taken at least one trip lasting more than 3 nights (in your country or abroad) in your life
Then... would you have 5 to 7 minutes to help me by filling out this questionnaire? 🙂 »» https://forms.gle/y74ckkvN9TjrougLA
Promise: I’m not selling anything, this isn’t marketing. Your answers are 100% anonymous and will only help me shape this wild project. A huge thank you to everyone for your help and kindness! Looking forward to chatting in this thread 😛
(Dear admins, this is purely a collaborative effort for my project study, with no commercial purpose. Thank you so much for your support!)
Photo: Grizzly Bear (Ursus arctos horribilis), female on the left and her cub on the right. Photo taken by me in Alaska, Denali National Park.
My project: I’d love to share this experience through a sustainable, authentic, and immersive nature tourism initiative. But to build something meaningful, I need to understand how other nature enthusiasts experience their own adventures.
If you:
Are over 20 years old
Have a true passion for Nature
Have already taken at least one trip lasting more than 3 nights (in your country or abroad) in your life
Then... would you have 5 to 7 minutes to help me by filling out this questionnaire? 🙂 »» https://forms.gle/y74ckkvN9TjrougLA
Promise: I’m not selling anything, this isn’t marketing. Your answers are 100% anonymous and will only help me shape this wild project. A huge thank you to everyone for your help and kindness! Looking forward to chatting in this thread 😛
(Dear admins, this is purely a collaborative effort for my project study, with no commercial purpose. Thank you so much for your support!)
Photo: Grizzly Bear (Ursus arctos horribilis), female on the left and her cub on the right. Photo taken by me in Alaska, Denali National Park.
Hello everyone,
It’s something we often notice in this forum—and many others—this behavioral shift.
A long-time member, or even a new one, asks a question. They get one or more answers, some brief, some detailed, and then... nothing???
Not even a simple thank you!!!
From what I’ve gathered, if the answers don’t align with what they wanted to hear, it seems natural for the asker to just disappear!! 😕 Unless—(and I fear this is the case)—basic politeness is no longer part of our society????
Please forgive my little rant.
Wishing everyone all the best. Cheers,
Puma2A

...
It’s something we often notice in this forum—and many others—this behavioral shift.
A long-time member, or even a new one, asks a question. They get one or more answers, some brief, some detailed, and then... nothing???
Not even a simple thank you!!!
From what I’ve gathered, if the answers don’t align with what they wanted to hear, it seems natural for the asker to just disappear!! 😕 Unless—(and I fear this is the case)—basic politeness is no longer part of our society????
Please forgive my little rant.
Wishing everyone all the best. Cheers,
Puma2A

...
I spent 3 weeks in Bali last summer (+ 3 nights on Gili Meno and a day trip to Kawah Ijen in Java). So I wanted to see what ChatGPT could suggest for comparison...
Here’s the prompt I gave:
"You’re a local expert guide for Bali.
- Plan a 20-day itinerary for Bali with a side trip to Gili Meno and a day trip to Kawah Ijen in Java without staying overnight.
- I’m traveling with my wife, and I love visiting historical sites, hiking, relaxing at the beach, snorkeling, and exploring rice terraces...
- For the duration of the stay, I don’t want more than 8 places to sleep, and I’d like to stay at least 2 days at each stop to avoid unpacking too often. Except for the last night, where I’m okay with just one night near the airport.
- I prefer neighborhoods that are walkable and try to avoid typical tourist traps, though I don’t want to miss the must-see spots. So suggest a mix of iconic sites and hidden gems.
- Recommend hotels or guesthouses with a budget of 50 to 100 € per night, including breakfast. Make suggestions in areas popular with travelers, specifying the vibe (I prefer quiet), and consider safety and proximity to attractions.
- For lunch and dinner, suggest two to three restaurants that are well-rated by customers.
- Give me a day-by-day program with details on travel times, visiting times for each point of interest, and recommendations for transportation (taxi, train, bike, etc.). Estimate the total cost of the trip, including accommodations, food, transportation, and activities, and suggest two tips for saving money in each category.
- Don’t make anything up—be realistic about travel times, take into account the opening dates and hours of sites, and give me the entry fees for places to visit.
- Ask me all the questions until you’re 95% sure you understand what’s being asked. Don’t generate your response until you’ve understood."
The AI asked for a few clarifications:
"Great request—I can build you a really optimized and enjoyable itinerary, but to be 95% sure I hit the mark, I need a few key clarifications (this will really influence the pace, areas, and accommodations)."
In the end, it proposed a program very close to what we actually did. I’ll skip its accommodation and restaurant suggestions...
Its proposal:
"Ubud (4 nights) => we did 5 nights Sidemen (2 nights) Amed (3 nights) => we’d planned 2 nights Gili Meno (3 nights) => we did Gili between Sidemen and Amed Munduk (3 nights) => we did 2 nights before Pemuteran Pemuteran (3 nights) with Ijen => we did 4 nights Sanur (2 nights + 1 last night) => we chose Jatiluwih instead of Sanur
It suggested "activities" (and accommodations too):
IN UBUD: - Walk around central Ubud (1–2h) - Campuhan Ridge Walk - Tegalalang Rice Terrace - Tirta Empul - Gunung Kawi - Massage / market / slow café
IN SIDEMEN: - Rice terrace hike (2–3h) - Cooking class
IN AMED: - Snorkeling - Japanese Shipwreck - Beach + relaxation - Volcano sunset
ON GILI: - Snorkeling at Gili Meno Turtle Point, Nest Underwater Statues
IN MUNDUK: - Jungle & waterfall hike - Munduk Waterfall + Melanting Waterfall - Loop: 3–4h (perfect for your level) - Ulun Danu Bratan Temple - Twin Lakes
IN PEMUTERAN - Snorkeling: Menjangan Island
For Kawah Ijen, it detailed the day well: 👍 from Pemuteran = best possible option 12 PM: leave hotel (we left at 10 PM) 1 PM: ferry 3 PM: arrival in Java + transfer 11 PM: start ascent 2 AM–6 AM: volcano Return to Bali around 11 AM–12 PM (we got back at 4 PM) 👍 still very intense, but doable with an agency 💰 ~80–120 €/person all-inclusive
IN SANUR: - Relaxation - Quiet beach - Proximity to airport (30 min)"
BUDGET: "3,000 – 3,900 € for 2 people" (We paid 3,200 €)
In conclusion, it’s not (yet) enough, but it’s (already) pretty impressive!
Here’s the prompt I gave:
"You’re a local expert guide for Bali.
- Plan a 20-day itinerary for Bali with a side trip to Gili Meno and a day trip to Kawah Ijen in Java without staying overnight.
- I’m traveling with my wife, and I love visiting historical sites, hiking, relaxing at the beach, snorkeling, and exploring rice terraces...
- For the duration of the stay, I don’t want more than 8 places to sleep, and I’d like to stay at least 2 days at each stop to avoid unpacking too often. Except for the last night, where I’m okay with just one night near the airport.
- I prefer neighborhoods that are walkable and try to avoid typical tourist traps, though I don’t want to miss the must-see spots. So suggest a mix of iconic sites and hidden gems.
- Recommend hotels or guesthouses with a budget of 50 to 100 € per night, including breakfast. Make suggestions in areas popular with travelers, specifying the vibe (I prefer quiet), and consider safety and proximity to attractions.
- For lunch and dinner, suggest two to three restaurants that are well-rated by customers.
- Give me a day-by-day program with details on travel times, visiting times for each point of interest, and recommendations for transportation (taxi, train, bike, etc.). Estimate the total cost of the trip, including accommodations, food, transportation, and activities, and suggest two tips for saving money in each category.
- Don’t make anything up—be realistic about travel times, take into account the opening dates and hours of sites, and give me the entry fees for places to visit.
- Ask me all the questions until you’re 95% sure you understand what’s being asked. Don’t generate your response until you’ve understood."
The AI asked for a few clarifications:
"Great request—I can build you a really optimized and enjoyable itinerary, but to be 95% sure I hit the mark, I need a few key clarifications (this will really influence the pace, areas, and accommodations)."
In the end, it proposed a program very close to what we actually did. I’ll skip its accommodation and restaurant suggestions...
Its proposal:
"Ubud (4 nights) => we did 5 nights Sidemen (2 nights) Amed (3 nights) => we’d planned 2 nights Gili Meno (3 nights) => we did Gili between Sidemen and Amed Munduk (3 nights) => we did 2 nights before Pemuteran Pemuteran (3 nights) with Ijen => we did 4 nights Sanur (2 nights + 1 last night) => we chose Jatiluwih instead of Sanur
It suggested "activities" (and accommodations too):
IN UBUD: - Walk around central Ubud (1–2h) - Campuhan Ridge Walk - Tegalalang Rice Terrace - Tirta Empul - Gunung Kawi - Massage / market / slow café
IN SIDEMEN: - Rice terrace hike (2–3h) - Cooking class
IN AMED: - Snorkeling - Japanese Shipwreck - Beach + relaxation - Volcano sunset
ON GILI: - Snorkeling at Gili Meno Turtle Point, Nest Underwater Statues
IN MUNDUK: - Jungle & waterfall hike - Munduk Waterfall + Melanting Waterfall - Loop: 3–4h (perfect for your level) - Ulun Danu Bratan Temple - Twin Lakes
IN PEMUTERAN - Snorkeling: Menjangan Island
For Kawah Ijen, it detailed the day well: 👍 from Pemuteran = best possible option 12 PM: leave hotel (we left at 10 PM) 1 PM: ferry 3 PM: arrival in Java + transfer 11 PM: start ascent 2 AM–6 AM: volcano Return to Bali around 11 AM–12 PM (we got back at 4 PM) 👍 still very intense, but doable with an agency 💰 ~80–120 €/person all-inclusive
IN SANUR: - Relaxation - Quiet beach - Proximity to airport (30 min)"
BUDGET: "3,000 – 3,900 € for 2 people" (We paid 3,200 €)
In conclusion, it’s not (yet) enough, but it’s (already) pretty impressive!
Hello everyone,
I’m sharing the menu posted at the entrance of a bar at the foot of the Porto Tower in Southern Corsica. . .
.
.
Greetings and have a great Sunday.
Puma2A . .

...
I’m sharing the menu posted at the entrance of a bar at the foot of the Porto Tower in Southern Corsica. . .
.
.Greetings and have a great Sunday.
Puma2A . .

...
I’ve kept the habit of blowing my nose in the sink and then washing my hands—a custom I picked up in India. Sometimes, non-travelers are shocked when they catch me in the act... 🤪
Also, when I run out of toilet paper, it doesn’t bother me—unless I’ve got company over... 🤪
Just got back from walking a friend’s dog (while they’re on vacation), wearing a djellaba and Tibetan boots... 😏😏😏 Oh, for sure, if I’d run into locals, I probably would’ve shocked them? 😏
Anyway, as long as I’m not spitting on the floor at a restaurant or squatting on the side of a highway with a water bottle in hand...
Do you bring back customs from your travels?
Also, when I run out of toilet paper, it doesn’t bother me—unless I’ve got company over... 🤪
Just got back from walking a friend’s dog (while they’re on vacation), wearing a djellaba and Tibetan boots... 😏😏😏 Oh, for sure, if I’d run into locals, I probably would’ve shocked them? 😏
Anyway, as long as I’m not spitting on the floor at a restaurant or squatting on the side of a highway with a water bottle in hand...
Do you bring back customs from your travels?
After taking a little trip around the world, I came back a few months ago with an idea in mind.
I mostly do diving, and I love observing animals in their natural habitat without disturbing them.
During the trip, I realized it was quite complicated to know where and when to see certain species.
For example:
where to dive with sharks or manta rays where you might get a chance to swim with whales
I even discovered thresher sharks during my trip… I didn’t even know this species existed before, even though they’re incredible to see.
We spent a ton of time searching for info all over the place, especially on social media, without ever getting a clear picture.
So I started putting all this together on my own, in the form of a map, to make it easier to visualize where to go depending on the seasons.
I recently put a first version online (it’s called Fauneya). There are probably mistakes, inconsistencies, or things to improve, and that’s partly why I’m posting here.
I’d really love to know how you all go about planning this kind of trip.
I mostly do diving, and I love observing animals in their natural habitat without disturbing them.
During the trip, I realized it was quite complicated to know where and when to see certain species.
For example:
where to dive with sharks or manta rays where you might get a chance to swim with whales
I even discovered thresher sharks during my trip… I didn’t even know this species existed before, even though they’re incredible to see.
We spent a ton of time searching for info all over the place, especially on social media, without ever getting a clear picture.
So I started putting all this together on my own, in the form of a map, to make it easier to visualize where to go depending on the seasons.
I recently put a first version online (it’s called Fauneya). There are probably mistakes, inconsistencies, or things to improve, and that’s partly why I’m posting here.
I’d really love to know how you all go about planning this kind of trip.
As part of my Master’s thesis, I’m currently conducting a public survey on a topic that concerns all of us when planning a trip: artificial intelligence and the role of human contact in travel planning.
These days, we’re using more and more digital tools to find ideas, compare options, and book trips... but is the role of human advisors still essential? At what moments? And for what types of trips?
The survey is anonymous and takes about 7 minutes.
It’s aimed at anyone who travels (or has traveled) for leisure, whether you plan everything yourself or go through an agency.
Survey link: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdkmBzW2QOE3_ZirhmdG8e2LQyaWLJxWUeyTR0LzpC8ytlufQ/viewform
Your response will be a huge help for my work and will contribute to a broader reflection on the future of the travel experience.
Thanks in advance to everyone who takes the time to participate!!
These days, we’re using more and more digital tools to find ideas, compare options, and book trips... but is the role of human advisors still essential? At what moments? And for what types of trips?
The survey is anonymous and takes about 7 minutes.
It’s aimed at anyone who travels (or has traveled) for leisure, whether you plan everything yourself or go through an agency.
Survey link: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdkmBzW2QOE3_ZirhmdG8e2LQyaWLJxWUeyTR0LzpC8ytlufQ/viewform
Your response will be a huge help for my work and will contribute to a broader reflection on the future of the travel experience.
Thanks in advance to everyone who takes the time to participate!!
While browsing the forum to gather info for my upcoming trip to Thailand, I often see the terms "traveler," "great traveler," and also "tourist"—so what’s the nuance for you?
I've traveled quite a bit in Vietnam over the past few years—from the southern delta to bustling cities and even some small islands—but what really sticks with me is the north, the high mountains.
Up there, there's something different—maybe slower, more raw. The morning markets with ethnic groups, women in traditional clothes, the colors...
The stilt houses, kids following you and laughing for no reason, the terraced rice fields—it almost feels unreal at times, so vast and quiet, yet so human and simple.
You often hear that Sapa has become too touristy, and that's partly true, especially in the center. But as soon as you move a little farther away, everything changes quickly. The landscapes open up, encounters feel more natural, and you rediscover something truly authentic.
I think it's that contrast that struck me—the difference between what you imagine before going and what you actually discover when you take the time.
And you—what memory do you hold onto from Vietnam? A particular place that touched you more than others?
Hello,
We’re finalizing the plans for our upcoming trip to China in May 2025. The second-to-last stop will be in Zhangjiajie, where we’ve planned to stay for 2 full days before heading to Shanghai.
We’re traveling solo using local transport and have arranged to stay in the city of Zhangjiajie.
We’ve seen that there’s a lot to see: Tianmen Mountain, the Grand Canyon and the glass bridge, Zhangjiajie National Park, and that the sites are quite far apart with fairly expensive entry fees. We’re thinking of dedicating one day to the national park and the Grand Canyon (glass bridge) and one day to Tianmen Mountain. But we’re not sure if this plan is realistic—any thoughts would be much appreciated!
Do you know if it’s possible to get around on our own, or is it better to go through a local agency or book a package like the one sold by TravelChinaGuide? https://www.travelchinaguide.com/package/zhangjiajie/2days-tour.htm
Thanks in advance for your advice! Alod
We’ve seen that there’s a lot to see: Tianmen Mountain, the Grand Canyon and the glass bridge, Zhangjiajie National Park, and that the sites are quite far apart with fairly expensive entry fees. We’re thinking of dedicating one day to the national park and the Grand Canyon (glass bridge) and one day to Tianmen Mountain. But we’re not sure if this plan is realistic—any thoughts would be much appreciated!
Do you know if it’s possible to get around on our own, or is it better to go through a local agency or book a package like the one sold by TravelChinaGuide? https://www.travelchinaguide.com/package/zhangjiajie/2days-tour.htm
Thanks in advance for your advice! Alod
Hello 🙂
I should be serving a warming drink to the participants in the discussion about gardens and parks that provide us with beautiful photos, I could mention the delicious buttery scent wafting from bakeries in the thread about returning to France, but my heart, its powerful pulse that nourishes my entire being, is elsewhere.
Dasht-e Lut, Yazd, Esfahan, Bam, Kerman, Qeshm, Hormuz—a melody, a prayer at the heart of desire.
A dream, an unattainable fantasy? No. Not anymore. A very serious Italian travel agency is organizing this trip for 6 people this winter. I’m signed up, I’m going, I’m living. Maybe.
"But you’re completely crazy!!!!"
I know... I know that every civilization, every society has a vital need to create scapegoats to define and justify itself, pathetically. And Iran is one of them, top of the list. I laugh or sigh, and it doesn’t bother me.
But that unchanging red, deep red and garnet, so beautiful in itself, in all the Western chancelleries repeats, whispers, shouts: don’t go, don’t go, don’t go, you’re putting yourself in danger and we can’t do anything for you. You’ll be turned into mere bargaining chips, into arguments for endless negotiations. Fear must be instilled, its power absolutely preserved, no concessions made to the enemy. The information (how many French hostages, real or fake, compared to the number of travelers?) is always lacking.
Traveling becomes a merciless confrontation between desire, the vital pulse, and anxiety, its ghosts.
Catherine
I should be serving a warming drink to the participants in the discussion about gardens and parks that provide us with beautiful photos, I could mention the delicious buttery scent wafting from bakeries in the thread about returning to France, but my heart, its powerful pulse that nourishes my entire being, is elsewhere.
Dasht-e Lut, Yazd, Esfahan, Bam, Kerman, Qeshm, Hormuz—a melody, a prayer at the heart of desire.
A dream, an unattainable fantasy? No. Not anymore. A very serious Italian travel agency is organizing this trip for 6 people this winter. I’m signed up, I’m going, I’m living. Maybe.
"But you’re completely crazy!!!!"
I know... I know that every civilization, every society has a vital need to create scapegoats to define and justify itself, pathetically. And Iran is one of them, top of the list. I laugh or sigh, and it doesn’t bother me.
But that unchanging red, deep red and garnet, so beautiful in itself, in all the Western chancelleries repeats, whispers, shouts: don’t go, don’t go, don’t go, you’re putting yourself in danger and we can’t do anything for you. You’ll be turned into mere bargaining chips, into arguments for endless negotiations. Fear must be instilled, its power absolutely preserved, no concessions made to the enemy. The information (how many French hostages, real or fake, compared to the number of travelers?) is always lacking.
Traveling becomes a merciless confrontation between desire, the vital pulse, and anxiety, its ghosts.
Catherine
Hi everyone, here’s our itinerary. Arriving on the evening of December 13th. Departing on January 7th.
Thanks in advance for your tips and valuable feedback.
Manila – 1 night Coron – 4 nights Coron to El Nido cruise – 2 nights El Nido – 4 nights Port Barton – 5 nights Flight from Puerto Princesa to Vigan Vigan – 2 nights Sagada – 2 nights Banaue – 2 nights Bagabag – 1 night Manila – 1 night I’ve only booked the flight to Manila and the Manila/Coron flight so far. Is it possible to book boat trips, accommodations, and the Puerto Princesa flight last-minute?
Thanks in advance. Florence
Manila – 1 night Coron – 4 nights Coron to El Nido cruise – 2 nights El Nido – 4 nights Port Barton – 5 nights Flight from Puerto Princesa to Vigan Vigan – 2 nights Sagada – 2 nights Banaue – 2 nights Bagabag – 1 night Manila – 1 night I’ve only booked the flight to Manila and the Manila/Coron flight so far. Is it possible to book boat trips, accommodations, and the Puerto Princesa flight last-minute?
Thanks in advance. Florence
Really disappointed with Costa Rica! Pura vida? The scam of the century!
(Costa Rica pure emptiness).
The country where animals are free and people are in cages. 3 weeks in December in this country and never again. Imagine the trailer of a movie that seems interesting, and when you go see it, you realize it’s a flop and the best moments were in the trailer. Well, that’s exactly how we felt with Costa Rica pure emptiness. My wife and I have traveled quite a bit and didn’t expect to be so wrong about a place. On the main routes, we visited: San José Alajuela Limón, Cahuita, Puerto Viejo, Manzanillo (Caribbean side) Jaco, Quepos, Manuel Antonio (Pacific side) And a few short stops in intermediate towns.
Our dissatisfaction grew gradually like this:
When we arrived at the hotel, the taxi dropped us off on a small street in front of a white metal gate with ground-floor windows barred. We looked at it skeptically, but the sign matched. He approached the gate, rang the bell, the buzzer sounded, and the door opened slightly. The hotel wasn’t bad for the price, a 10-minute walk from downtown, but with a "Fleury-Mérogis" vibe guaranteed.
So far, so good.
After showering and regaining our bearings, we headed downtown. What started to unsettle us on the way was seeing houses with bars on the ground-floor windows and even on the second floor. At first, we thought the hotel’s neighborhood wasn’t great.
Downtown San José: It’s a generic city, not very exotic, with a pedestrian street and a small mercado where you can eat local food without frills. Very few tourists—if any—which let you blend in with the locals. We had lunch and struggled to make ourselves understood because, aside from one or two shops, English wasn’t spoken. On the way back to the hotel, we took a different route, and while chatting and strolling, my wife pointed out a beautiful two-story white house completely barricaded like Fort Knox. From that moment, we started noticing the facades of houses and buildings, and wow, it was creepy—most looked like prisons, some even with barbed wire. Though put off, we told ourselves it was probably a big-city thing and the rest of the country couldn’t be like this.
So far, so good.
We relaxed at the hotel and had a drink at the bar. Night falls early, around 5:30 PM. By 7:30 PM, we headed back downtown for dinner. A bit unsettling for a capital—downtown was almost deserted, and aside from fast-food chains, very few restaurants were open, with hardly anyone on the streets. Bars with security guards out front. I won’t say we felt unsafe that night, but once it got dark, we realized the bars on the windows weren’t for nothing. First day in, and our impression was already mixed.
The next day, we explored the city and surroundings, and our feelings didn’t change.
So far, so good.
Off to Cahuita by bus—4 hours of travel. The landscapes are very green but quickly become monotonous. The road runs alongside the forest and passes through a few towns and villages, and even in the countryside, there were just as many prison-like houses. The bus dropped us off at Cahuita’s terminal station—only four of us got off. It’s a village, or rather, a small town. Cahuita is basically one straight road and a perpendicular one, and honestly, doubt started to creep in. A few restaurants that add 13% tax and 10% service charge—so 23% extra. We dropped our stuff at the hotel and went to explore. In 20 minutes, we’d seen it all. We had lunch and planned to check out the famous park. Entry is by donation—well, the "entry" is a joke. There’s a path along the forest by the sea, and that’s it.
Nothing’s going right anymore.
We thought it was a total scam, but since we hadn’t gone far, we decided to come back the next day to explore further. We returned to the hotel, relaxed, and around 8:00 PM, we went out for dinner. Only two restaurants were open, and the streets were deserted.
Creepy!
The next day, we explored the so-called park more thoroughly and really got it. A path along the forest by the sea—2 hours there and 2 hours back, where you see animals that feel like showing their faces. A total joke—"all that for this?"
The beach was full of wood debris and coconut husks. We wondered if the photos online were edited because the sea, very rough, wasn’t the azure blue we’d seen in pictures. But calling this a park is a joke—it’s like a new concept.
When we thought about the reviews online, we started to suspect that professionals with interests in the country were monitoring and countering any negative feedback that could harm their business. Too bad we didn’t check the negative reviews beforehand—we did while we were there, and it helped. We wondered if we’d become too demanding after all our travels, but no—when something’s bad, it’s bad.
Manuel Antonio’s park is even more ridiculous—there’s a short path along the sea for about 500 meters, and then nothing. You have to climb through mud and hack your way through the forest. We ended up barefoot because the mud was up to our calves. All that to see a raccoon and a few parrots flying overhead.
We didn’t expect Noah’s Ark, but we’ve seen more animals in Bali, Mexico, and Thailand while visiting temples or just walking around than in these so-called parks!
Puerto Viejo, not far from Cahuita and supposedly livelier—well, it couldn’t be worse! According to Lonely Planet, it had a Caribbean vibe and wild nights, but maybe that was a long time ago. The good reggae music playing everywhere isn’t enough.
In the evening, Puerto Viejo was a bit livelier than Cahuita, but that’s not saying much. Very few tourists—if any—no night market, just two or three shops open selling $20 T-shirts. Same vibe as San José.
No big deal—we enjoyed the beach and the sun, which was reliable. Our itinerary was supposed to include Tortuguero Park, but after talking to other travelers who’d just been, we changed our minds, knowing we’d be visiting Manuel Antonio Park on the Pacific side.
To get back to the Pacific side, you have to take the bus and go through San José again—5 hours this time—then switch bus terminals and another 4.5 hours to Quepos. A stopover town to get to Manuel Antonio’s beach and park! A town just like the others we’d seen—deserted as soon as the sun sets, and not exactly bustling during the day either. (Where are all the tourists?)
Still as many bars on the windows and that feeling of being in the wrong place.
7 km later: Manuel Antonio beach and park. The beach is very beautiful and quite large, but don’t expect turquoise blue water—the waves stir up the sand, giving the water a brownish color. Along the beach, shops and restaurants for about 300 meters, and then nothing. At night, after sunset, the town shuts down too.
Manuel Antonio Park is highly praised for its wildlife, so we were eager to see it. When you express dissatisfaction with Cahuita or Manzanillo parks, the response is always, "But you should’ve gone to Monteverde or Manuel Antonio!" No matter what you do or say, they’ll tell you, "You should’ve gone there or here."
Back to our famous park—entry was about $16, and contrary to what we’d heard, it wasn’t crowded! Guides at the entrance with spotting scopes offered their services for about $30. The park: a mix of boardwalk and dirt paths through the forest, sometimes running alongside beautiful coves and beaches. As soon as we entered, a crowd was taking photos of a deer eating leaves. A little further on, a guide with a group of five stopped. The guide raised his arm and set up his spotting scope! He showed them, about 100 meters away, a hummingbird perched on a branch. Some, looking through the scope, exclaimed, "Oh my God! Amazing! Incredible!" For a moment, we thought they’d discovered a unicorn or were in Jurassic Park and had just crossed paths with a T-Rex! The concept is comical—looking at a bird or another animal through a spotting scope because it’s too far away. Isn’t that what TV is for? For our part, we saw monkeys, ants, an armadillo, an iguana, and the backside of a sloth climbing a tree. Amazing, incredible!
We stayed a few days in Manuel Antonio to enjoy the beach, changing hotels often because prices varied wildly from one day to the next for shameful services. On top of that, they’d quote a price in dollars and convert it at their discretion—thieves!
Alajuela, a city near the airport, has a two-story mall and a local market downtown! No interest except its proximity to the airport.
What we liked:
The climate and, in hindsight, San José—the most authentic city we visited.
What we didn’t like, in addition to what we’ve already mentioned:
Costa Ricans aren’t very friendly or communicative. English is barely spoken, not even by doctors at Quepos Hospital, where my wife ended up with food poisoning (thanks, Google Translate). The widespread obesity among Costa Ricans, who eat like Americans. The insecurity. The eco-hipsters who leave their $150 lodges in minivans with guides to visit parks and other sites, then return to barricade themselves in their fortresses at nightfall (oh my God, amazing, incredible). The blue signs at the entrance of towns that accept this payment method: "We accept American Express." Parking lots that become paid just because a guy is watching your car. Prices displayed in dollars. The cost of living (hotels, restaurants, taxes). Landscapes that are too green and not flowery enough. Beaches—nothing exceptional. Pollution in cities where big American trucks rule. Sewage dumped directly into the sea. Aside from the jungle, there’s nothing to visit—no ruins, monuments, or anything worth seeing.
In short, my wife and I think the hype about this supposedly eco-friendly country is overrated. It’s just the trendy destination of the moment. There are much better, cheaper, and more authentic places. In hindsight, we keep the good memories and our beautiful photos, but if we had to do it over...
Before signing off, a little message to those who don’t like hearing opinions different from theirs: Well, some things aren’t up for debate. And to those who’d have us believe that in 3 weeks, we don’t have the right to criticize a country or express our feelings—how can you praise it in so little time? What a scam. Costa Rica is a money pit. Pura vida? Pure cosmic emptiness.
If you like spending your evenings barricaded in your cozy hotel after dark, this country is for you. For everyone else: run!
The country where animals are free and people are in cages. 3 weeks in December in this country and never again. Imagine the trailer of a movie that seems interesting, and when you go see it, you realize it’s a flop and the best moments were in the trailer. Well, that’s exactly how we felt with Costa Rica pure emptiness. My wife and I have traveled quite a bit and didn’t expect to be so wrong about a place. On the main routes, we visited: San José Alajuela Limón, Cahuita, Puerto Viejo, Manzanillo (Caribbean side) Jaco, Quepos, Manuel Antonio (Pacific side) And a few short stops in intermediate towns.
Our dissatisfaction grew gradually like this:
When we arrived at the hotel, the taxi dropped us off on a small street in front of a white metal gate with ground-floor windows barred. We looked at it skeptically, but the sign matched. He approached the gate, rang the bell, the buzzer sounded, and the door opened slightly. The hotel wasn’t bad for the price, a 10-minute walk from downtown, but with a "Fleury-Mérogis" vibe guaranteed.
So far, so good.
After showering and regaining our bearings, we headed downtown. What started to unsettle us on the way was seeing houses with bars on the ground-floor windows and even on the second floor. At first, we thought the hotel’s neighborhood wasn’t great.
Downtown San José: It’s a generic city, not very exotic, with a pedestrian street and a small mercado where you can eat local food without frills. Very few tourists—if any—which let you blend in with the locals. We had lunch and struggled to make ourselves understood because, aside from one or two shops, English wasn’t spoken. On the way back to the hotel, we took a different route, and while chatting and strolling, my wife pointed out a beautiful two-story white house completely barricaded like Fort Knox. From that moment, we started noticing the facades of houses and buildings, and wow, it was creepy—most looked like prisons, some even with barbed wire. Though put off, we told ourselves it was probably a big-city thing and the rest of the country couldn’t be like this.
So far, so good.
We relaxed at the hotel and had a drink at the bar. Night falls early, around 5:30 PM. By 7:30 PM, we headed back downtown for dinner. A bit unsettling for a capital—downtown was almost deserted, and aside from fast-food chains, very few restaurants were open, with hardly anyone on the streets. Bars with security guards out front. I won’t say we felt unsafe that night, but once it got dark, we realized the bars on the windows weren’t for nothing. First day in, and our impression was already mixed.
The next day, we explored the city and surroundings, and our feelings didn’t change.
So far, so good.
Off to Cahuita by bus—4 hours of travel. The landscapes are very green but quickly become monotonous. The road runs alongside the forest and passes through a few towns and villages, and even in the countryside, there were just as many prison-like houses. The bus dropped us off at Cahuita’s terminal station—only four of us got off. It’s a village, or rather, a small town. Cahuita is basically one straight road and a perpendicular one, and honestly, doubt started to creep in. A few restaurants that add 13% tax and 10% service charge—so 23% extra. We dropped our stuff at the hotel and went to explore. In 20 minutes, we’d seen it all. We had lunch and planned to check out the famous park. Entry is by donation—well, the "entry" is a joke. There’s a path along the forest by the sea, and that’s it.
Nothing’s going right anymore.
We thought it was a total scam, but since we hadn’t gone far, we decided to come back the next day to explore further. We returned to the hotel, relaxed, and around 8:00 PM, we went out for dinner. Only two restaurants were open, and the streets were deserted.
Creepy!
The next day, we explored the so-called park more thoroughly and really got it. A path along the forest by the sea—2 hours there and 2 hours back, where you see animals that feel like showing their faces. A total joke—"all that for this?"
The beach was full of wood debris and coconut husks. We wondered if the photos online were edited because the sea, very rough, wasn’t the azure blue we’d seen in pictures. But calling this a park is a joke—it’s like a new concept.
When we thought about the reviews online, we started to suspect that professionals with interests in the country were monitoring and countering any negative feedback that could harm their business. Too bad we didn’t check the negative reviews beforehand—we did while we were there, and it helped. We wondered if we’d become too demanding after all our travels, but no—when something’s bad, it’s bad.
Manuel Antonio’s park is even more ridiculous—there’s a short path along the sea for about 500 meters, and then nothing. You have to climb through mud and hack your way through the forest. We ended up barefoot because the mud was up to our calves. All that to see a raccoon and a few parrots flying overhead.
We didn’t expect Noah’s Ark, but we’ve seen more animals in Bali, Mexico, and Thailand while visiting temples or just walking around than in these so-called parks!
Puerto Viejo, not far from Cahuita and supposedly livelier—well, it couldn’t be worse! According to Lonely Planet, it had a Caribbean vibe and wild nights, but maybe that was a long time ago. The good reggae music playing everywhere isn’t enough.
In the evening, Puerto Viejo was a bit livelier than Cahuita, but that’s not saying much. Very few tourists—if any—no night market, just two or three shops open selling $20 T-shirts. Same vibe as San José.
No big deal—we enjoyed the beach and the sun, which was reliable. Our itinerary was supposed to include Tortuguero Park, but after talking to other travelers who’d just been, we changed our minds, knowing we’d be visiting Manuel Antonio Park on the Pacific side.
To get back to the Pacific side, you have to take the bus and go through San José again—5 hours this time—then switch bus terminals and another 4.5 hours to Quepos. A stopover town to get to Manuel Antonio’s beach and park! A town just like the others we’d seen—deserted as soon as the sun sets, and not exactly bustling during the day either. (Where are all the tourists?)
Still as many bars on the windows and that feeling of being in the wrong place.
7 km later: Manuel Antonio beach and park. The beach is very beautiful and quite large, but don’t expect turquoise blue water—the waves stir up the sand, giving the water a brownish color. Along the beach, shops and restaurants for about 300 meters, and then nothing. At night, after sunset, the town shuts down too.
Manuel Antonio Park is highly praised for its wildlife, so we were eager to see it. When you express dissatisfaction with Cahuita or Manzanillo parks, the response is always, "But you should’ve gone to Monteverde or Manuel Antonio!" No matter what you do or say, they’ll tell you, "You should’ve gone there or here."
Back to our famous park—entry was about $16, and contrary to what we’d heard, it wasn’t crowded! Guides at the entrance with spotting scopes offered their services for about $30. The park: a mix of boardwalk and dirt paths through the forest, sometimes running alongside beautiful coves and beaches. As soon as we entered, a crowd was taking photos of a deer eating leaves. A little further on, a guide with a group of five stopped. The guide raised his arm and set up his spotting scope! He showed them, about 100 meters away, a hummingbird perched on a branch. Some, looking through the scope, exclaimed, "Oh my God! Amazing! Incredible!" For a moment, we thought they’d discovered a unicorn or were in Jurassic Park and had just crossed paths with a T-Rex! The concept is comical—looking at a bird or another animal through a spotting scope because it’s too far away. Isn’t that what TV is for? For our part, we saw monkeys, ants, an armadillo, an iguana, and the backside of a sloth climbing a tree. Amazing, incredible!
We stayed a few days in Manuel Antonio to enjoy the beach, changing hotels often because prices varied wildly from one day to the next for shameful services. On top of that, they’d quote a price in dollars and convert it at their discretion—thieves!
Alajuela, a city near the airport, has a two-story mall and a local market downtown! No interest except its proximity to the airport.
What we liked:
The climate and, in hindsight, San José—the most authentic city we visited.
What we didn’t like, in addition to what we’ve already mentioned:
Costa Ricans aren’t very friendly or communicative. English is barely spoken, not even by doctors at Quepos Hospital, where my wife ended up with food poisoning (thanks, Google Translate). The widespread obesity among Costa Ricans, who eat like Americans. The insecurity. The eco-hipsters who leave their $150 lodges in minivans with guides to visit parks and other sites, then return to barricade themselves in their fortresses at nightfall (oh my God, amazing, incredible). The blue signs at the entrance of towns that accept this payment method: "We accept American Express." Parking lots that become paid just because a guy is watching your car. Prices displayed in dollars. The cost of living (hotels, restaurants, taxes). Landscapes that are too green and not flowery enough. Beaches—nothing exceptional. Pollution in cities where big American trucks rule. Sewage dumped directly into the sea. Aside from the jungle, there’s nothing to visit—no ruins, monuments, or anything worth seeing.
In short, my wife and I think the hype about this supposedly eco-friendly country is overrated. It’s just the trendy destination of the moment. There are much better, cheaper, and more authentic places. In hindsight, we keep the good memories and our beautiful photos, but if we had to do it over...
Before signing off, a little message to those who don’t like hearing opinions different from theirs: Well, some things aren’t up for debate. And to those who’d have us believe that in 3 weeks, we don’t have the right to criticize a country or express our feelings—how can you praise it in so little time? What a scam. Costa Rica is a money pit. Pura vida? Pure cosmic emptiness.
If you like spending your evenings barricaded in your cozy hotel after dark, this country is for you. For everyone else: run!
Hello,
Since the war between Russia and Ukraine, nothing is simple anymore for traveling to Belarus due to sanctions.
No more direct flights from the EU to Minsk.
Driving is a huge hassle, especially crossing through Poland at the only open border in Brest—you can wait 2, 3, or even 4 days just to get through by car.
The least painful driving option is to come via Lithuania and cross at the only open border, with a minimum wait time of 8 hours, sometimes up to 20 hours or more!!
Controls are very strict and annoying on both the Lithuanian and Belarusian sides. Avoid bringing alcohol, food, or cigarettes—everything will end up in the trash, especially when leaving Belarus for Vilnius, where the Lithuanians are tough, even with EU citizens.
The joy I once knew when visiting my wife in Minsk is sadly over—it’s now a real ordeal.
The fastest solution is to fly. My wife travels to France by taking a bus to Kaunas in Lithuania, where you can catch a flight (though not daily) to Paris Beauvais or Charleroi in Belgium with Ryanair, for example. For the return trip, it’s the same: a flight to Kaunas and then a direct bus from the airport to Minsk. The bus crossing is quicker than driving—the 250 km journey, including border checks, takes about 6 to 8 hours for buses leaving Lithuania around midnight, but controls are still strict at the border. The biggest challenge is finding flight schedules that align with the bus routes between the two countries, given the unpredictable border crossing times. Now, my wife travels via Charleroi in Belgium (near Brussels), and you can take a train to Paris. Alternatively, you can fly into Beauvais and take a bus to Paris (Porte Maillot). For those driving, note that EU insurance and assistance policies no longer work in Belarus or Russia. You’ll need to get local insurance, usually limited to third-party liability (I don’t think full coverage exists?), as well as mandatory medical insurance. This is available at the border. You now have to pay highway tolls—no more BELTOLL boxes. Instead, you pay a flat fee for the duration of your stay. Stop at the first gas station after crossing from Lithuania to fill up on fuel and cigarettes. From what I know, Lithuania bans carrying more than 60 € in cash, but there’s no limit for USD (though it’s capped at $10,000??). With a Visa card, you can now withdraw 1,000 rubles per week (about 270 €)—two months ago, it was only 500 rubles!! For now, you can still pay by card in shops and gas stations. However, major retailers like KORONA (which may be Russian-owned??) no longer accept foreign Visa cards. Unfortunately, the additional sanctions announced by the U.S. on August 5, 2025, against Russia—and possibly Belarus—aren’t promising for the future. After 20 years of visiting Belarus, I’m truly saddened to see the joy of living in this country with my wonderful wife turn into such a bleak situation, all because of human folly.
The fastest solution is to fly. My wife travels to France by taking a bus to Kaunas in Lithuania, where you can catch a flight (though not daily) to Paris Beauvais or Charleroi in Belgium with Ryanair, for example. For the return trip, it’s the same: a flight to Kaunas and then a direct bus from the airport to Minsk. The bus crossing is quicker than driving—the 250 km journey, including border checks, takes about 6 to 8 hours for buses leaving Lithuania around midnight, but controls are still strict at the border. The biggest challenge is finding flight schedules that align with the bus routes between the two countries, given the unpredictable border crossing times. Now, my wife travels via Charleroi in Belgium (near Brussels), and you can take a train to Paris. Alternatively, you can fly into Beauvais and take a bus to Paris (Porte Maillot). For those driving, note that EU insurance and assistance policies no longer work in Belarus or Russia. You’ll need to get local insurance, usually limited to third-party liability (I don’t think full coverage exists?), as well as mandatory medical insurance. This is available at the border. You now have to pay highway tolls—no more BELTOLL boxes. Instead, you pay a flat fee for the duration of your stay. Stop at the first gas station after crossing from Lithuania to fill up on fuel and cigarettes. From what I know, Lithuania bans carrying more than 60 € in cash, but there’s no limit for USD (though it’s capped at $10,000??). With a Visa card, you can now withdraw 1,000 rubles per week (about 270 €)—two months ago, it was only 500 rubles!! For now, you can still pay by card in shops and gas stations. However, major retailers like KORONA (which may be Russian-owned??) no longer accept foreign Visa cards. Unfortunately, the additional sanctions announced by the U.S. on August 5, 2025, against Russia—and possibly Belarus—aren’t promising for the future. After 20 years of visiting Belarus, I’m truly saddened to see the joy of living in this country with my wonderful wife turn into such a bleak situation, all because of human folly.
Hi everyone!
I’m putting together our travel itinerary for Veneto at the end of April. And the more I look and research potential sites to visit, the more I find!
We’ll only be there for a week—my family and I—including 3 days in Venice. So we have to make some choices...
I plan to rent a car when we arrive in Venice and head straight to Bergamo, which would be our first stop. We’d leave the car at the airport when we return to Venice so we can explore the city at our leisure.
What do you think: 1 night in Bergamo (a 2h15 drive from Venice airport), 1 night in Garda, 1 night in Verona, 1 in Padua, and 3 in Venice—would that be doable?
Thanks in advance for your tips and experiences! :)
What do you think: 1 night in Bergamo (a 2h15 drive from Venice airport), 1 night in Garda, 1 night in Verona, 1 in Padua, and 3 in Venice—would that be doable?
Thanks in advance for your tips and experiences! :)
Now that the curtain has fallen on the past year, it’s time to see what’s happening around here.
It seems pretty quiet, but I’ll read more in detail later.
First, I need to tell you all an anecdote.
My eldest little girl, in her third year of law school, was really scared she wouldn’t pass the year. I told her: “Trust yourself, you’ve worked so hard, and worst case, if you fail, you’ll just redo the year.” “But I don’t think I’ll make it—they changed the rules, and if I mess up even one unit, I have to start all over.” I knew her grades weren’t exactly stellar, and with what I was about to say, I wasn’t taking much of a risk. “Here’s the deal, sweetheart: if you pass, I promise I’ll take you to India, just the two of us.” I have to admit, India is a country I’ve talked about so much to all my grandchildren that in their minds, it’s become a magical, mythical place (hmm).
July had barely begun when my phone rang, her name flashing on the screen. “Mamido, I did it!” My promise came rushing back—oh no, oh no, oh no! “Congratulations, sweetheart!” A little shyly, she said: “Is the India trip still on?”
And me, replying: “Of course it is!”
And that’s that—a promise is a promise, or you risk losing that precious trust that keeps hearts warm and at peace.
We’re leaving in February. Only 8 days—yikes, the carbon footprint! But we can’t miss her tutorials, or she’ll be kicked out. Personally, that works just fine for me.
Going to India has become a challenge for me. It’s far, it’s exhausting, I sweat, I hate mosquitoes, the spices bother my mouth when I used to love them. There’s noise all the time—at night, the dogs bark nonstop, and we almost get run over. I’ll get lost in the streets because my sense of direction has vanished. I don’t like rice anymore. All that chaos and those cultural differences that once enchanted me now just overwhelm me. But I promised.
The upside—and it’s a big one—Raman, the same driver I’ve had forever, will be at the airport with a sign with our names. We’ll stop at the same little shop for chai (or tea, plain and simple) with that aroma that intoxicates me, halfway through the trip.
It’ll be a tiny trip—staying with friends, I’ll show her a few places I love: Chidambaram, Mamallapuram, and the clinic where I worked. Then we’ll head back. My little girl will go home to her parents.
As for me, I’ll leave right away for our Scottish island with Homme for our chilly winter.
How can you love a country so much you want to live there, then suddenly reject it, no longer able to appreciate what once made it special? That’s the mystery of love, I guess.
First, I need to tell you all an anecdote.
My eldest little girl, in her third year of law school, was really scared she wouldn’t pass the year. I told her: “Trust yourself, you’ve worked so hard, and worst case, if you fail, you’ll just redo the year.” “But I don’t think I’ll make it—they changed the rules, and if I mess up even one unit, I have to start all over.” I knew her grades weren’t exactly stellar, and with what I was about to say, I wasn’t taking much of a risk. “Here’s the deal, sweetheart: if you pass, I promise I’ll take you to India, just the two of us.” I have to admit, India is a country I’ve talked about so much to all my grandchildren that in their minds, it’s become a magical, mythical place (hmm).
July had barely begun when my phone rang, her name flashing on the screen. “Mamido, I did it!” My promise came rushing back—oh no, oh no, oh no! “Congratulations, sweetheart!” A little shyly, she said: “Is the India trip still on?”
And me, replying: “Of course it is!”
And that’s that—a promise is a promise, or you risk losing that precious trust that keeps hearts warm and at peace.
We’re leaving in February. Only 8 days—yikes, the carbon footprint! But we can’t miss her tutorials, or she’ll be kicked out. Personally, that works just fine for me.
Going to India has become a challenge for me. It’s far, it’s exhausting, I sweat, I hate mosquitoes, the spices bother my mouth when I used to love them. There’s noise all the time—at night, the dogs bark nonstop, and we almost get run over. I’ll get lost in the streets because my sense of direction has vanished. I don’t like rice anymore. All that chaos and those cultural differences that once enchanted me now just overwhelm me. But I promised.
The upside—and it’s a big one—Raman, the same driver I’ve had forever, will be at the airport with a sign with our names. We’ll stop at the same little shop for chai (or tea, plain and simple) with that aroma that intoxicates me, halfway through the trip.
It’ll be a tiny trip—staying with friends, I’ll show her a few places I love: Chidambaram, Mamallapuram, and the clinic where I worked. Then we’ll head back. My little girl will go home to her parents.
As for me, I’ll leave right away for our Scottish island with Homme for our chilly winter.
How can you love a country so much you want to live there, then suddenly reject it, no longer able to appreciate what once made it special? That’s the mystery of love, I guess.
I’ve visited the U.S. four times myself, including two long road trips. The last one was just this past August...
I won’t be going back. I already felt guilty last August, but recent policies have finally convinced me: the humiliation of Zelensky, authoritarian excesses, Gestapo-like methods for detaining people of foreign origin, the murder of innocent people (a mother shot dead), corruption, insane "tariffs," skyrocketing healthcare costs for Americans, the abduction of foreign figures to secure oil, the requirement to disclose social media accounts, and now... threats and blackmail to forcibly take Greenland—a region that belongs to Denmark and thus the European Union!
The reality is that simply posting this could get me denied entry to the U.S.!
In this context, I just can’t keep spending money there. I loved my trips, but there are so many other countries with stunning landscapes to explore.
So I get why you’d want to travel there. I did, and I loved it. But once a country no longer respects any of the values that made us love it, why go?
How can we even consider traveling to a country that threatens to take one of our territories by force?
I won’t be going back. I already felt guilty last August, but recent policies have finally convinced me: the humiliation of Zelensky, authoritarian excesses, Gestapo-like methods for detaining people of foreign origin, the murder of innocent people (a mother shot dead), corruption, insane "tariffs," skyrocketing healthcare costs for Americans, the abduction of foreign figures to secure oil, the requirement to disclose social media accounts, and now... threats and blackmail to forcibly take Greenland—a region that belongs to Denmark and thus the European Union!
The reality is that simply posting this could get me denied entry to the U.S.!
In this context, I just can’t keep spending money there. I loved my trips, but there are so many other countries with stunning landscapes to explore.
So I get why you’d want to travel there. I did, and I loved it. But once a country no longer respects any of the values that made us love it, why go?
How can we even consider traveling to a country that threatens to take one of our territories by force?
Hi there,
While reading some travel journals, I notice that we always reflect on the people of the countries we visit.
I’d love to hear your thoughts on which people charmed you the most during your travels?
I’m not looking for controversy, just reflections and personal feelings. Looking forward to reading your replies...
While reading some travel journals, I notice that we always reflect on the people of the countries we visit.
I’d love to hear your thoughts on which people charmed you the most during your travels?
I’m not looking for controversy, just reflections and personal feelings. Looking forward to reading your replies...
Hello everyone,
Controversial topic? Not necessarily—maybe just a reflection on a world to come.
I spent the last 15 days of August on a cruise in Greenland, from Kangerlussuaq to Tasiilaq.
I was utterly amazed by this unique world of rock and ice, the little houses in every color, a simple life that’s also complicated by isolation and climate, among other things...
I carry in my heart the kindness of the people I met, the raw and gentle majesty of the icebergs, the colors of the sky...
So, I can’t even imagine a massive presence of raw material prospectors, heavy machinery requiring roads to be built—if that’s even possible—changing their way of life... putting sled dogs out to pasture!
Do fast food and Greenland’s northern lights really mix?
I wouldn’t trade my memories for an ESTA!
All opinions are respectable, which is why this isn’t a controversy—but I’m sorry, I have a soft spot for *my* Greenland.
Best regards,
So, I can’t even imagine a massive presence of raw material prospectors, heavy machinery requiring roads to be built—if that’s even possible—changing their way of life... putting sled dogs out to pasture!
Do fast food and Greenland’s northern lights really mix?
I wouldn’t trade my memories for an ESTA!
All opinions are respectable, which is why this isn’t a controversy—but I’m sorry, I have a soft spot for *my* Greenland.
Best regards,

Hello to all East Africa lovers and nature enthusiasts in general,
While I prepare to share a recap of our latest trip/safari in Kenya soon, I’d like to wish you all a peaceful transition between 2025 and 2026.
Warm regards,
Puma2A.





...
We’re a couple aged 58 and 63. We’ve just returned from a wonderful trip to South India in Tamil Nadu and a few days in Kerala. We traveled with a local French-speaking guide and his friend, the driver. They both live in Pondicherry. We spent 3 weeks with them in the most authentic way!
We covered just over 2,500 km and visited not only temples but also archaeological sites, museums, and small artisanal businesses making tiles, tea, sculptures, bronze, and silk spinning. We were lucky enough to visit a public school, attend a wedding, and even a death announcement in a small countryside village. We were fully immersed in the culture, food, noise, and colors—it was incredible!
The hotels and guesthouses we chose were very clean and mostly quiet. We’re returning from India with amazing discoveries!
We’re happy to share more info if you’d like! M-Claire and Jean
We covered just over 2,500 km and visited not only temples but also archaeological sites, museums, and small artisanal businesses making tiles, tea, sculptures, bronze, and silk spinning. We were lucky enough to visit a public school, attend a wedding, and even a death announcement in a small countryside village. We were fully immersed in the culture, food, noise, and colors—it was incredible!
The hotels and guesthouses we chose were very clean and mostly quiet. We’re returning from India with amazing discoveries!
We’re happy to share more info if you’d like! M-Claire and Jean
This catchy and somewhat mysterious title comes from several questions I’ve been asking myself.
VF has been back open for a reasonable number of weeks and months now. The number of visitors overall matches past averages, but the number of members online in the last 24 hours seems relatively lower than what we used to see.
Yet, to my surprise, I’m seeing fewer travel journals, way fewer messages, and way fewer questions. I don’t see many new registered users online, and I notice a number of members who are logged in but either aren’t participating or have stopped participating.
Something’s not adding up for me because, in my opinion, VF is still appealing, and I don’t see which other sites could really compete.
Was there a real break between pre- and post-Covid? Does it just take more time for some people to discover the site or learn that it’s active again? Do people now prefer quick consumption on sites like FB or others I’m not familiar with? Where have the site’s old-timers gone, and what are they doing with their time now? What’s really going on here?
VF has been back open for a reasonable number of weeks and months now. The number of visitors overall matches past averages, but the number of members online in the last 24 hours seems relatively lower than what we used to see.
Yet, to my surprise, I’m seeing fewer travel journals, way fewer messages, and way fewer questions. I don’t see many new registered users online, and I notice a number of members who are logged in but either aren’t participating or have stopped participating.
Something’s not adding up for me because, in my opinion, VF is still appealing, and I don’t see which other sites could really compete.
Was there a real break between pre- and post-Covid? Does it just take more time for some people to discover the site or learn that it’s active again? Do people now prefer quick consumption on sites like FB or others I’m not familiar with? Where have the site’s old-timers gone, and what are they doing with their time now? What’s really going on here?
Hi there,
This isn’t exactly a traveler’s question... I’d like to know who handles the technical side of this forum?
I run a similar forum on a different topic (unrecognized children), and we’re dealing with a few technical issues that are slowly killing our forum... so I’d have one or two questions to ask 😊.
Also, I was wondering who created this forum... who the administrators or moderators are, etc.
I think this forum is great. Much better than Facebook, which I’ve been using since it shut down (so I’m happy to see it’s working again...)
This isn’t exactly a traveler’s question... I’d like to know who handles the technical side of this forum?
I run a similar forum on a different topic (unrecognized children), and we’re dealing with a few technical issues that are slowly killing our forum... so I’d have one or two questions to ask 😊.
Also, I was wondering who created this forum... who the administrators or moderators are, etc.
I think this forum is great. Much better than Facebook, which I’ve been using since it shut down (so I’m happy to see it’s working again...)