Petting a lion in South Africa?
FR

Translated into English.

MI Michel85200 Globetrotter ·
Clearly the message didn’t get through
michel85200
DJ Djalma Globetrotter ·
Clearly the message didn’t get through

Looks like nothing new on this topic. So there are still tourists who want to pet lions? It’s an obsession. They should’ve been circus tamers!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XCOyB7WStI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2eI67iCbKY
JO Jojoone1 Globetrotter ·
They do the same thing in Thailand with tigers. Drugged, obviously. Tigers! When you see the size of the paws on even the smallest ones...
« Tout le monde s'interroge sur comment laisser une meilleure planète à nos enfants, mais on devrait plutôt penser à laisser de meilleurs enfants pour notre planète. » Clint Eastwood
MI Michel85200 Globetrotter ·
hi The law banning the breeding of lions in captivity still hasn’t passed. Scams involving so-called lion research centers and all that nonsense continue. The latest travel journal says, "I walked with lions at one of these fake centers," and it still breaks my heart! Have a good day
michel85200
MI Michel85200 Globetrotter ·
hi The law banning the breeding of lions in captivity still hasn’t passed. Scams involving so-called lion research centers and all that nonsense continue. The latest travel journal says, "I walked with lions at one of these fake centers," and it still breaks my heart! Have a good day
michel85200
JO Jojoone1 Globetrotter ·
If that was the only issue. I was really heartbroken in Vietnam seeing so many birds locked in cages. A creature that needs to fly, and for miles. Sheltered from neither loudspeakers nor road noise. I also had the misfortune of visiting the Izmir zoo back in the 80s. It was more like a concentration camp. Still in Thailand, you sometimes come across people who have huskies!

And they call *us* human beings.
« Tout le monde s'interroge sur comment laisser une meilleure planète à nos enfants, mais on devrait plutôt penser à laisser de meilleurs enfants pour notre planète. » Clint Eastwood
DJ Djalma Globetrotter ·
Are there centers that protect injured or orphaned lions? Kind of like how you can find "reserves" in Romania for bears that have been mistreated or injured cubs rescued from the wild..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XCOyB7WStI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2eI67iCbKY
MI Michel85200 Globetrotter ·
No, it’s just impossible and extremely dangerous. Injured lions get eaten by hyenas, just like orphans (hyenas, leopards, other lions, etc.).
michel85200
MI Michel85200 Globetrotter ·
exactly what you shouldn’t do!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQNC4JecIgo

It’s all there... you don’t interact with cubs you don’t walk with adults you don’t pet a cheetah.

THE first question that ruffles feathers!

Where do these lions come from?

The second one:

What happens to them?

google: walking with lions south africa ethic

and dig a little... you’ll catch on fast.

Animal exploitation, a scam preying on good intentions, zero ethics, lots of money...
michel85200
MO Montagnard74 Globetrotter ·
Hi Michel, Just trying to understand—https://cheetah.co.za/, good to avoid? Bruno
"Le véritable voyage de découverte ne consiste pas à chercher de nouveaux paysages, mais à avoir de nouveaux yeux." Marcel Proust
MI Michel85200 Globetrotter ·
Hi there, first off, great to hear from you... don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater—it’s tough... there’s “I want world peace,” “I wage war on the world,” and “I try to make the world have fewer wars.”

I’ll probably be long and maybe really "annoying," but I’ll try to explain. “Most people listen to respond, not to understand.”

We can all agree that killing rhinos for their horns—supposedly magical (though, just to be clear, neither you nor I need those powers! I’m joking...)—is wrong.

You run a game reserve... not super wild, but still pretty rugged. You’ve got 10,000 hectares to protect... with guards, fences, video surveillance, dehorning, or microchips in the horn keratin, etc. It costs an arm and a leg... to protect, among other things, your 10 rhinos. You’ve got an old rhino who won’t be around much longer. Someone offers you $50,000—not for its horn, but for the trophy. That’s enough to protect the others... What do you do? Not accepting is ethical and moral... but you don’t have the funds for protection, and the risk of rhinos being mutilated or killed is high. If you accept, are you a bad person? Not exactly nice, but you’ll protect the other nine rhinos! You’ll admit the question, framed like that, is pretty interesting, right?

Now, onto your question. 1. They have cheetahs born on-site 9 or 10 (or more) years ago. That’s good—it shows fundamental care from the start. 2. The youngest wasn’t born there but was rescued. Also good. 3. What do they do? They let visitors interact with the cheetahs (old and young). The base fee is affordable, but things get pricier. 4. How? Keeping cheetahs means making them run... so it’s a big operation. Petting the older cheetahs and the young one (rescued) isn’t ideal. 5. Cheetahs are nothing like lions. They’re “almost domesticated.” They don’t pose the same terrifying danger as lions. And they’re *really* endangered (unlike lions). 6. What do they do with the money? No pseudo-genetic research or nonsense. They organize life between breeders and cheetahs (with guard dogs). They study cheetah behavior outside their center... They don’t take naive tourists near lion enclosures claiming they’ll see them in their "natural habitat."

So... To do all this, you need funds. Donors, volunteers, and... people who pay to get close to cheetahs (and cheetahs aren’t lions—physiologically, territorially, etc.). You’ll understand I get their approach, and when you can’t have thrushes, you eat blackbirds. Besides, no association or group has ever warned about this... (even if, obviously, there are bad apples in the bunch). So in my opinion, don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Take care, ndlelanhle Stay well! Wishing you a good night!
michel85200
MO Montagnard74 Globetrotter ·
Hi Michel. Not too long, not too boring either 😉 Factual as always—that’s what defines you and makes you a cornerstone of this part of the forum.

Your breakdown on the rhino reserve is unassailable. Selling the trophy is a crime in itself, but saving 9... 😮

That’s also why I shared your take on the cheetah park, which we visited back in 2016. Thanks, by the way, for digging into the site—proof that if you write about something, you’ve researched it.

Even though a cheetah isn’t a lion (I’m no expert on endangered species conservation), what we saw there is exactly what you denounce: petting the animal, even feeding it, playing with the cubs... Yet, by participating financially, we contribute to the species’ conservation through the nonprofit’s programs. And we get amazing memories as a bonus.

What I’m saying is that your warning should mainly make people aware that they need to study and inform themselves before acting (which I did for the cheetahs).

You can’t stop people from walking with lions if they really want to. You don’t have the power or the legitimacy to do that. But among all the options, there must be providers who do things right—maybe you know some? Why not highlight them here?

Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater, as you so aptly put it.

Have a great day, Bruno P.S.: I can be long and boring too 😉
"Le véritable voyage de découverte ne consiste pas à chercher de nouveaux paysages, mais à avoir de nouveaux yeux." Marcel Proust
MI Michel85200 Globetrotter ·
Hey, For lions, it’s impossible. Let’s imagine: You rescue an orphaned lion cub. Probability = 1% You bottle-feed it, And It becomes a lion with unmanageable danger. So, it’s doomed to live in an enclosure. You rescue one, you don’t rescue 50. And you tell the truth. The first problem is the lie. Secondly, Lions are bred in captivity. It’s like an animal shelter breeding its dogs. An association that wants to help lions— They buy land, Put up fences, Or act as a buffer between locals and lions. Tracking collars, Dogs, Kraals, Education, Local community profit-sharing. Example: Desert Lion Conservation in Namibia.
michel85200
MI Michel85200 Globetrotter ·
In your example These are old cheetahs They don’t restock They don’t breed They brought in a younger one from elsewhere They don’t make up justifications They fully participate in field actions with the local population And they’re cheetahs You put it all together And you were in a context that’s currently quite ethical
michel85200
MI Michel85200 Globetrotter ·
You can’t criticize people’s ways of traveling or the activities they choose. Oh yes, you can. We’re on the same planet. We’re not talking sea or mountains, pool or no pool, luxury hotel or backpacking. We’re talking about an activity offered to tourists that has a huge impact. Or else, we wouldn’t be shocked if I bought a necklace made of pangolin scales (an orphan we tried to save, blah blah), rhino horn, lion bone powder, ivory, bear bile. And I’m sticking to animals.
michel85200
MI Michel85200 Globetrotter ·
My concern In all good faith People do this activity They’ll find it amazing They’ll talk about it Others will read it And off we go again If no one at some point says Careful, it’s risky 😕 I’m not blaming those who did it in good faith But those who know… I went to a marine park a long time ago Afterward, I learned it wasn’t great I never went back Who’s for bear tamers at old fairs? Who’s for wild animals in circuses? Who’s for marine parks? There are actually several levels here… Who’s for rhino horn or turtle soup? We’re talking about this, right?
michel85200
AT Attila Globetrotter ·
You can’t stop people from walking with lions if they want to..

True.

But this kind of informative post might mean there are only 2 customers instead of 10, so in the end, the place shuts down due to lack of profitability.

It’s not the same to walk with a lion thinking the animal is there because it was rescued and can’t live in the wild anymore, as it is to walk with a lion knowing the animal will eventually be killed by a "hunter" after being sedated first.

The providers do everything to make tourists believe they’re in the first scenario when they’re actually in the second.

What goes on behind the scenes is just unimaginable.
Ponts du monde : concours de photos amical de juillet 2026 Rubrique Jeux Voyages C'est le moment de poster vos meilleurs clichés !
MO Montagnard74 Globetrotter ·
We’re talking about it, right?

Of course! 😛 !
"Le véritable voyage de découverte ne consiste pas à chercher de nouveaux paysages, mais à avoir de nouveaux yeux." Marcel Proust
PU Puma2A Veteran ·
Hello,

I came across your post 3 days ago.

Even though I’ve only read the first and last pages, I’m appalled by the level of human stupidity that can be reached in all areas of (our) society.

I’m a lover of wildlife (photo safaris), but I never would have imagined that this kind of "activity" could be proposed and done (in the end, I must be quite naive!!). Maybe it was discussed in the other pages I didn’t read, but this is the "logical" continuation of "TIPI’s" life, that Namibian girl whose parents raised her to live among and in contact with wild animals. It was a huge success with TV reports and books... and it seems to have left indelible marks.

In the end, this is the same "taste" as visits to Maasai villages (villages often created for tourists). By the way, many people consider this a safari activity...!! But very few realize that all these young women they see dancing (smartphone in hand) in front of them have undergone between 6 and 8 years of... FGM (female genital mutilation), that abominable ritual linked to beliefs from another era.

In the same vein as walking with lions, we should refuse to visit these Maasai villages. The worst part is that some people even take their own daughters, the same age as the mutilated girls, to see this "show"...!!

I never would have imagined it, but maybe you can also pay to go hiking in the Afghan mountains, guided by a Taliban member who will teach you their customs??? (and thus fund their activities)...

Indeed (utopian dream, of course), if no one went walking with lions or visited Maasai villages, the activity would die out, and the instigators might start asking themselves some questions.

Thanks for bringing up and clearly explaining the issue in this post.

Best regards,

...
MI Michel85200 Globetrotter ·
Hi there, I don’t know anything about the Maasai. On the other hand, in Southern Africa, check out Namibia—there are visits to “villages” of the San, Zulu, or others, especially in KZN or near Hazyview. These are basically open-air museums, fully acknowledged as such. People play a role, then go home in jeans. Only the Japanese seem to think it’s real life. As for the San: Two versions. The same one—okay. And the San who are forced to dress up before going to milk the cows…
michel85200
MA Manondugard Regular ·
Hi there, if it were only in Africa. In France, the biggest animal-related scandals are actually caused by certain organizations or associations that claim to be "friends" of animals. 😏
Christine
PU Puma2A Veteran ·
Hello, as if it were only in Africa. In France, the biggest animal-related scandals are actually caused by certain organizations or so-called "animal-loving" associations

Like, for example, fans of bullfighting or those who practice fox hunting...!!

...
MA Manondugard Regular ·
Hello, as if it were only in Africa. In France, the biggest animal-related scandals are actually caused by certain organizations or associations that claim to be "friends" of animals

Like, for example, fans of bullfighting, or those who practice hunting with hounds....!!

...

I don’t practice hunting with hounds, which really upsets me when I see a stag cornered by a pack of dogs in a video—I couldn’t watch it for long. Regarding bullfights, which you clearly don’t know much about given the spelling without the S at the end, bullfights aren’t part of my two bullfighting traditions, but I deeply respect those who go because personally, I can’t bear to see a bull die. That said, everyone has their own culture, assuming we have one. Mine is deeply Latin—what about yours?
Christine
DJ Djalma Globetrotter ·
For someone who’s a stickler for spelling, just so you know—in French, it’s *taureau*, not *toro*! 🙁
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XCOyB7WStI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2eI67iCbKY
MA Manondugard Regular ·
For someone who’s a stickler for spelling, you should know that in French, we write "taureau" and not "toro"! :(

Hello, for someone who doesn’t know that France has very specific regions, including in the South, you should know that we write "toro" for the Spanish fighting bull used in bullfights. And regarding the Camargue bull-running events, which I’m from, we write: "Taureau" (or "biou" in our local language) 🤠

Best regards!!!
Christine
JO Jojoone1 Globetrotter ·
For someone who’s a stickler for spelling, you should know that in French, it’s spelled "taureau" and not "toro"!🙁

You can be a stickler for spelling and still get thrown by grammar 😉
« Tout le monde s'interroge sur comment laisser une meilleure planète à nos enfants, mais on devrait plutôt penser à laisser de meilleurs enfants pour notre planète. » Clint Eastwood
MA Manondugard Regular ·
Hi there, personally spelling and I don’t mix—I left school at 12. But I’m really attached to my local and ancestral traditions, so I’d like to share a little about customs and the words we use.

Hoping there won’t be too many arguments in this travelers’ group, like what often happened in the other forum I left for that reason 😅
Christine
JO Jojoone1 Globetrotter ·
It’s hard to avoid these little arguments, especially since it’s less obvious in writing what someone really thinks, whereas it’s often clearer when you’re face-to-face.

Bullfighting was introduced to France during the time of Napoleon III because his wife, Eugénie de Montijo, was Spanish. Even if it’s a tradition, it’s not that old.

I always think that in the future, people looking back at some of our activities—like that one—will wonder if we weren’t quite evolved yet.

The cruelty of the Roman circus games, sure, but now...

Another topic: wouldn’t it be reasonable to ban boxing? And what about kangaroos?
« Tout le monde s'interroge sur comment laisser une meilleure planète à nos enfants, mais on devrait plutôt penser à laisser de meilleurs enfants pour notre planète. » Clint Eastwood
MA Manondugard Regular ·
It’s hard to avoid these little arguments, especially since it’s less obvious in writing what the other person is thinking, whereas it’s often clearer when you’re face-to-face.

Bullfighting was introduced to France during the time of Napoleon III because his wife, Eugénie de Montijo, was Spanish. While it’s a tradition, it’s not that old.

I always think that in the future, people looking back at some of our activities like this will wonder if we weren’t quite evolved yet.

The circus games and their cruelty, back in the Roman Empire—okay, but now...

Another topic: wouldn’t it be reasonable to ban boxing? And for kangaroos?

It’s part of our culture, and on the side of our Camarguais ancestors, even back in the 1200s–1400s, things were pretty wild. A guy who got gutted in the ring by a bull—on top of his imminent death, people would yell at him: "You should’ve stayed home, idiot!" 😂

Nowadays, the ambulance is always ready, and the doctor is in the stands too (I think we’re improving).
Christine
DJ Djalma Globetrotter ·
And regarding the Camargue Courses I come from,

No way? That’s not possible! It’s just folklore...😏
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XCOyB7WStI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2eI67iCbKY
MA Manondugard Regular ·
And regarding the Camargue Courses that I come from,

No way! That’s not possible! It’s just folklore...😏

Hundreds of ordinary people earn their living around the CC. The young *raseteurs* all have families to feed and risk their lives under the horns every day, for hundreds of years (and you’re calling it folklore?). You wanna act like you know the French language, but you don’t know jack about the regions 😄

Look at the title of this thread and what @jojoone1 said (that we’re not done yet)😏 And the one who wants to pet lions—what’s he done for himself, huh? 😄
Christine
MA Manondugard Regular ·
And regarding the Camargue Races, which I come from,

No way! That’s not possible! It’s just folklore...😏

you’re the folkloric one 😏
Christine
MI Michel85200 Globetrotter ·
I suggest Walking with buffalo As a new activity
michel85200
PU Puma2A Veteran ·
I suggest Walking with buffalo As a new activity

Or maybe Walking with LaManon ... !!!

...
DJ Djalma Globetrotter ·
Nordic walking with the poles!🚶‍♂️
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XCOyB7WStI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2eI67iCbKY
MA Manondugard Regular ·
Michel, Puma, Djamal, why are you racking your brains to suggest something that’ll be at least as ridiculous and lame as trying to pet a lion? 😄
Christine
JO Jojoone1 Globetrotter ·
I guess they’ve passed the age of petting cougars, and they’re not about to settle for lions either. 🙂 There are a few of us on this site who like to joke around, but honestly, we’re happy to see a new participant on the forum.
« Tout le monde s'interroge sur comment laisser une meilleure planète à nos enfants, mais on devrait plutôt penser à laisser de meilleurs enfants pour notre planète. » Clint Eastwood
MA Manondugard Regular ·
I should say they’ve passed the age for cougar-cuddling, and they’re not about to settle for lions either. 🙂 There are a few of us on this site who like to joke around, but honestly, we’re happy to see a new participant join the forum.

A funny way to welcome me by calling me a cougar —I’m sure you don’t even know the real definition, which I absolutely am not, even if I’ve only ever been with younger guys in my love life . To be honest, I’m here out of necessity—I’ve been "sidelined" or "put on the shelf" until the 31st on the other forum for dissent (or at least, that’s what the mod told me) . Anyway, for a free spirit like me (a true child of the Camargue wind), giving a "blast"—as we say—or a verbal lashing when someone pokes me is a real pleasure. 😄
Christine
JO Jojoone1 Globetrotter ·
The puma (Puma concolor), also called mountain lion, cougar (Canada), couguar, or cougouar (French spellings), is a mammal carnivore belonging to the family of felids. It’s a solitary animal that lives in the Americas. Hard to spot, it looks like a leopard without spots, which is why it’s sometimes mistakenly called a “panther.”

As for the other forum, you wouldn’t be happy there. It’s a bunch of old reactionaries who can’t stand anyone who thinks differently or has opinions that don’t match theirs. They’re so convinced they’re on the side of good that their only goal is to silence anyone who disagrees with them by any means necessary. They don’t even realize they’re worse than the forums they criticize. If you’re not woke or *islamo-leftist*, if you’re not pro-Covid vaccine or anti-Trump, you’ll be pretty unwelcome there. They’re about a century behind—they probably think they’re fighting the Third Reich. Not just anyone can run a forum. If it’s just going to be worse than what you left behind, it’s not worth it to me.
« Tout le monde s'interroge sur comment laisser une meilleure planète à nos enfants, mais on devrait plutôt penser à laisser de meilleurs enfants pour notre planète. » Clint Eastwood
CH Cheechako Veteran ·
Hello, What’s with this forum being so agreeable? You’ve really piqued my curiosity.....
https://www.flickr.com/photos/135039272@N03/
JO Jojoone1 Globetrotter ·
You’re just one word swap away from the forum’s name. Check out the thread "I refuse to go: French travelers more reluctant to visit the U.S. with Trump’s return" in the USA section under the Americas. Apart from one or two who express themselves in a calm and reasonable way, I reckon everyone else has lost the plot. They’re doing even worse what they used to criticize others for elsewhere.
« Tout le monde s'interroge sur comment laisser une meilleure planète à nos enfants, mais on devrait plutôt penser à laisser de meilleurs enfants pour notre planète. » Clint Eastwood
MA Manondugard Regular ·
The puma (Puma concolor), also called mountain lion, cougar (Canada), couguar or cougouar (French spellings), is a mammal carnivore belonging to the family of felids. It’s a solitary animal that lives in the Americas. Hard to spot, it looks like a leopard without spots, which is why, colloquially, it’s sometimes also called a "panther."

As for the other forum, you wouldn’t be happy there. It’s a bunch of old reactionaries who can’t stand anyone who stands out or has different opinions. They’re so sure they’re on the side of good that their only goal is to silence anyone who disagrees with them by any means necessary. They don’t even realize they’re worse than the forums they criticize. If you’re not woke or "islamo-leftist," if you’re not pro-COVID vaccine or anti-Trump, you’ll be persona non grata there. They’re about a century behind—they probably think they’re fighting the Third Reich. Not just anyone can run a forum. If it’s just to do worse than what you left behind, it’s not worth it to me.

I’ve been on the other forum for over 10 years, where I’ve had to change my username about 40 times and even use Anonymox to hide my IP because they’ll go that far to hunt you down 😏. Their only hobby is tearing down novice travelers and clicking the report button. The only issue is the automation—3 reports = an investigation and a timeout in the broom closet 😏. Of course, I’ll be back on the 31st, with a more polished vocabulary to bypass their filters and counter those snitches who make me sick just imagining their hideous grins when they hit that button. I won’t say more because they’re here too, lurking under different usernames 😏
Christine
JO Jojoone1 Globetrotter ·
My bad, I misread that. The forum I’m talking about is 3 or 4 years old. Is yours the one from Routard?
« Tout le monde s'interroge sur comment laisser une meilleure planète à nos enfants, mais on devrait plutôt penser à laisser de meilleurs enfants pour notre planète. » Clint Eastwood
MA Manondugard Regular ·
My mistake, I misinterpreted. The forum I’m talking about is 3 or 4 years old. Is yours the one from Le Routard?

Yes. Hostilities kicked off in 2015 when I had the misfortune of sharing my trips off the beaten path in northern Colombia and in war zones that are still active to this day. Dangerous areas that I’ve mastered without any issues after 16 stays of 40–45 days each. They called me a liar, so I ended up posting my real identity on the forum (and they immediately dug into my Facebook 😏—some who didn’t even have an account created one on the social network just to snoop 🤪). Explaining that I was going to the Colombian guerrilla zone—the same one as the narcos—for something other than the conflict that’s been going on for over 60 years was a real battle. Why? Because these so-called "travelers" on electric scooters 😏 have a totally off-base definition of off-the-beaten-path travel (they actually just go where everyone else goes) 😄
Christine
JO Jojoone1 Globetrotter ·
Oh yeah, that’s not wrong. Those so-called backpackers on electric scooters, haha 🙂

Here we’re careful because some real tall tales have already shown up
« Tout le monde s'interroge sur comment laisser une meilleure planète à nos enfants, mais on devrait plutôt penser à laisser de meilleurs enfants pour notre planète. » Clint Eastwood
MA Manondugard Regular ·
I had done a little digging back then on those 4 or 5 pillars of this forum who are here 24/7. Mostly former teachers (probably missing being in charge) 😏
Christine
MA Manondugard Regular ·
Back then, I did a little digging on those 4 or 5 pillars of this forum who are here 24/7. Mostly former teachers (probably missing the chance to boss people around)

There was even a couple using two different computers to target the more vulnerable users. One day, the woman messed up by using the other computer to comment (and she got busted in front of everyone) 😂
Christine
VO Voyajou Globetrotter ·
This morning, at an exhibition of Jean-Michel Folon’s works. This watercolor is titled *The Silence*. 🙂



@Manondugard

Of course I’m going back on the 31st

Can’t wait for September!
MI Michel85200 Globetrotter ·
🙂
michel85200
MA Manondugard Regular ·
This morning, at an exhibition of Jean-Michel Folon’s works. This watercolor is titled « The Silence ». 🙂



@Manondugard

Of course I’ll be back on the 31st

Can’t wait for September!

After the cougar, here comes the broomstick 😏 I must say, some people here are really going out of their way to scare off newcomers. So, it makes me want to stay (2 forums to read—given the level, it’s done in 5 minutes) 😂
Christine

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