How do you feel about coming back to France?
FR

Translated into English.

AT Attila Globetrotter ·
Still the same poorly supported argument...

And yet most of them still leave for Russia.

Nope... It's in Europe...

An excerpt:

Emigration is identified as a major issue, toward the West (during the fall of 2023, it’s estimated that 200 to 350,000 Belarusians left for Europe) but also toward the East (over 60,000 Belarusians are working in Russia).

But you’ll probably tell me again that my sources are biased... Westernized?
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
But you’ll probably say my sources are biased again... Westernized?

A bit, yes, but mostly they’re about a specific context and moment, not a long-term trend. It turns out the idea of Belarusians fleeing the country like East Germans once fled the GDR is false; I’m not judging or even thinking about it, but that’s just how it is.

Michel
MA Mathews Globetrotter ·
But they also have a decent salary for the country, travel often to Turkey or Egypt. Not the poverty you describe.

Hey, that’s a bit unfair. First, the average salary in Belarus is one of the lowest in Europe—barely 700 € a month. Text.

Plus, you’ve had the chance to get a decent education, go to university, and land a good job—something that isn’t the case for everyone in the world. At the end of the day, if you enjoy working on an assembly line, tightening bolts, and getting your hands dirty (I started my working life that way), that’s your call.
AT Attila Globetrotter ·
Still no source.

I suggest you change your username.

Pravda29, why not?

(The original is already taken.)

After Tatra isn’t so bad according to this article...😄
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
@Mathews The average salary is assessed in terms of purchasing power, not absolute value. I’m not saying salaries are high, but costs are low—especially rent, which might be the lowest in Europe relative to income. I’d say people there live overall like in Romania: income is lower, the cost of living is also much lower, but the standard of living seems quite similar. Do you know any Belarusians who say things like that? Young people in particular? Because when it comes to education and general knowledge, it’s a whole different story compared to France, huh! 🤪 You’ve got a lot of preconceived ideas...

@Atilla You’ll find the sources yourself, Agnès.

We’ve strayed a bit from the topic, but actually, not that much: I’m trying to explain that every nation tends to have a narrative that glorifies itself and downplays others, that we see the world through the lens of our ideology. Unless you take a lot of distance and step out of the frame, but that’s almost a job in itself.

Michel
JO Jojoone1 Globetrotter ·
A democracy, an extinct religion, freedom for women, dressing how you want, eating or drinking what you want, no corruption on every street corner, no oppressive crowds everywhere, a certain cleanliness, decent hygiene that lets you not worry, easier access than elsewhere to effective healthcare even if you don’t have a penny.

On the contrary, a religion on the rise that all our descendants will benefit from 100% in a few decades.
KO Kola Globetrotter ·
everything we no longer have or will soon lose

On the contrary, a religion that’s thriving and one that all our descendants will benefit from 100% in a few decades.

Can you be more specific?
AT Attila Globetrotter ·
You’ll know how to find the sources, Agnès

But I’m just a slow high-schooler. How do you expect me to dig up sources that even you can’t find?
AT Attila Globetrotter ·
Like all religions, the one you’re talking about will fade away.

In fact, it’s already fading.

The number of non-religious people is growing in the countries that export it, including among new French citizens.

What slows the movement down is "respect."

Respect for elders, for tradition. Fitting into the mold, not upsetting one’s family.

So people no longer believe, but they don’t come out for fear of offending or being abandoned by their own.

It took quite a while for homosexuals to come out—it’s hard to admit you’re different when you think you’re the only one.

This end is playing out in a bath of blood and fury. The beast lashes out before dying, and like any sect, it recruits those who are uncomfortable in their own skin.

It wouldn’t have anything to fear if it just lived its life quietly.

The same was true, by the way, for Christendom.

For sources, I’ll refer you to Tatra. He’s an expert.
JO Jojoone1 Globetrotter ·
Can you be more specific?

Since it’s already happened that some ill-intentioned people pulled this on me, I think when someone smart plays dumb, it’s not just that they don’t respect others—they don’t respect themselves either.
JO Jojoone1 Globetrotter ·
Hi there, I’ve been traveling for 18 years now, at least 6 months a year, and as the years go by, well, I actually enjoy coming back to France more and more—a feeling I struggled with at first. I mean, we always think the grass is greener elsewhere. Then, in the end, I find meaning in that saying that you’re still pretty well off at home. So I still love traveling just as much, but now my trips are shorter, and I enjoy spending more time in our beautiful country, which I don’t hesitate to criticize, by the way. And you—how do you handle coming back from your trips?

I forgot to mention—and it’s surprising no one else has—that it’s such a delight to be back in your own bed. The first two nights, I practically purr with comfort 😉

I also think that a long enough trip helps you handle the return to daily life better, and the benefits last for months.
KO Kola Globetrotter ·
As has happened before when ill-intentioned people have pulled this on me, I think that when someone intelligent plays dumb, it’s not only that they don’t respect others—but they also don’t respect themselves.

Maybe you’re misreading me, and I’m actually just dumb and kind-hearted.

No matter what someone’s ideas or beliefs are, isn’t it more respectable—both toward others and themselves—to name them clearly, own them, and engage in reflection with solid arguments? Rather than hiding them in cryptic remarks, then dodging the question when they’re simply challenged, and choosing a line of retreat to escape some imagined sneak attack?
MA Mathews Globetrotter ·
And that intense feeling of decline.

Hi, what’s declining? Brittany?

with its poor palette of greys and greens

Really? Because Belarus has richer colors? The landscapes in Eastern Europe are pretty much the same—the difference is in the types of pine trees. You have a very baroque view of things.
MI Mithron ·
And that intense feeling of decline.

Hi, what’s in decline? Brittany?

with its poor palette of greys and greens

Really? Because Belarus has richer colors? The landscapes in Eastern Europe are pretty much the same—what’s different are the types of pine trees. You have a very dramatic view of things.

France is doing just fine; it’s @tetras who’s not
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
Hello Mathews,

To avoid seeing that Brittany is in sharp decline, you’d have to have lived there three or four decades ago, and you’d have to not travel regularly to comparable territorial and cultural entities. Take Estonia, Slovenia, or Catalonia, for example. And I’m not even talking about Ireland, where the assets and constraints were particularly similar… only to end up several divisions apart. I’m not entirely sure who’s really to blame, but in terms of economy and quality of life, there’s a chasm that’s widened. You find it strange because you’re used to some kind of mythical, romantic narrative about Brittany, but living there is quite another story. Feelings of downgrading, loss of industry, withdrawal, and giving up on its industrial, productive, and export-driven vocation.

I never said Belarus was colorful. I was just using it as an example in a specific context—I don’t bring it up all the time.

Michel
JO Jojoone1 Globetrotter ·
All good, I’ll keep that in mind. Still, I won’t budge—everyone understood that. I grew up in a world tainted by the consequences of one dogma, and it’s hard to bear seeing it replaced by an even worse one.
PO Poste42 Veteran ·
About Brittany, I heard on the radio—I can’t remember the exact date, but it wasn’t long ago—that Brittany would be the most populated region in France by 2050. And also, a recent survey found that for 7 out of 10 French people, it’s the region where they’d like to live now or in the future. Can you guess why? ??? You might say we’re selling a dream.
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
Dreamy? I don’t know, but a kind of image and illusion, yes, definitely. We’re on a travelers’ forum: check out the affordable and convenient flight options available to Breton travelers, and you’ll already see things a little differently 😏. France’s most populated region? No, that’s impossible. The reason? I don’t know, I just don’t see it.

Michel
AT Attila Globetrotter ·
explore the affordable and convenient options available to Breton travelers for air service, and you’ll start to see things a little differently

Unless you live in the Paris region, air connections are usually either nonexistent, expensive, or both...

Never move to Auvergne...

And yet, people from Auvergne feel right at home there.

You’re really fixated on air travel as if it’s the be-all and end-all of choosing where to live.

For you, maybe, since all you think about is escaping your Breton prison, but for most people, it’s not like that.
AT Attila Globetrotter ·
France is doing just fine, it's @tetras who's not

The capercaillie, a bird of ill omen?

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