How do you feel about coming back to France?
FR

Translated into English.

MI Mithron ·
I was talking about investors who see a huge opportunity here, just like those who, over 30 years ago, bought land in northern Europe to plant vineyards and produce the future great wines we’ll have less and less of in France due to climate change. The drinking habits of the three local boozers weren’t the point of this post. Nor were those who criticize this beautiful region, which has a bright future—especially with rising temperatures making bookings drop in the south and tourism increase in Brittany and the North every year.
MA Mathews Globetrotter ·
hey Jojoone, let me guess who wrote this poetry -Patrick Sébastien? -Carlos? -The Charlots?
MA Mathews Globetrotter ·
I was talking about investors who see a huge opportunity here.

Does this mean La Baule and Saint-Nazaire are set to become the new Saint-Tropez of France’s Atlantic coast? Yes, hurry up and invest. Especially since the TGV goes all the way to La Baule, unlike Saint-Tropez.
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
Good evening Mickaël,

Not to mention those who criticize this beautiful region with a future, particularly with rising temperatures being felt every year in the drop in bookings in the south and the increase in tourism in Brittany and the North.

Well, a few words... I was born in Brittany, in maritime Brittany; I grew up there, and I’ve been back working there since 1993, seeing tens of thousands of young people from rural areas pass through—often even the children of those I knew in their youth. During my studies, I also took a deep interest in the question, in the 60s, 70s, 80s, the CELIB, and so on. Up to my postgraduate studies. So when I explain what it’s *really* like, in real life—not the illusion of a week’s vacation or the fantasies of a wine-growing project—I’ve got a couple of biscuits and a bit of legitimacy to do so 🙂. Most people who decide to move to Brittany leave very quickly because it’s tough, the people are anything but welcoming, they miss the world too much, their friends forget them, and you can’t live on calendar photos and romantic myths. Or else they *do* have significant means, and in Auray, Dinard, Pont-Aven, Place Saint-Corentin in Quimper, or Perros-Guirec, you can indeed find croissants.

Michel
AT Attila Globetrotter ·
Your job must be really exciting to have sacrificed everything for it...

But I’m starting to wonder if Brittany is really the issue?
MA Mathews Globetrotter ·
Most people who decide to come and settle in Brittany leave very quickly because it’s really harsh,

It’s true that life in Brittany can be very tough: winters get down to -20°C, there are few roads inland, and not everyone has running water. In some villages, people have to dig wells to get water. And in many villages, residents have to walk several kilometers across fields to find a shop. Electricity is hit-or-miss too.
AT Attila Globetrotter ·
And on top of that, you can’t even find croissants there! 😉

A mystery when it comes to *chocolatines* vs. pain au chocolat...

(On the other hand, no problem devouring *kouign amann* or *gâteau breton*—sniff, there’s none in Auvergne! 😠)
VO Voyajou Globetrotter ·
So, the week confirmed that the real topic of this discussion is: Brittany according to Tatra (Season 6).

To not see that Brittany is in sharp decline, you must not have lived there three or four decades ago, and you must not have traveled regularly to comparable territorial and cultural entities. Take Estonia, Slovenia, or Catalonia, for example. And I’m not even talking about Ireland, which had particularly comparable assets and constraints... only to end up several divisions apart in results.

Trying to prove that Brittany is in sharp decline by comparing it to a French administrative region, two countries that were long under Soviet influence and only began in the market economy three or four decades ago, the wealthiest autonomous community in Spain, and—the cherry on top—Ireland, whose current success is solely due to tax dumping and being held in the grip of multinationals, is like comparing apples and oranges (from Léon).

The data is different, and while comparison isn’t always reasonable, let’s look at Brittany’s evolution relative to other French regions: between 1990 and 2020, its GDP growth was slightly higher than the country’s (in %). Hardly evidence of a sharp decline. But it’s true that not all the INSEE folks have lived in Brittany for three or four decades. 😎

Whoever wants to ruin their dog accuses it of rabies.

Place Saint Cotentin in Quimper

Good old Corentin, who annexed Normandy in the 5th century. 😮
PO Poste42 Veteran ·
Houses for 40,000 € in Brittany aren’t exactly common—plus, after negotiation, how much do they actually end up costing? In inland Brittany, you’re never far from the ocean or the sea. Even small towns like Ploermel or Pontivy have expensive housing. Not to mention farmland—check out the price per hectare. And now there’s vineyard land too. The region’s attractive, so people are moving in, which has helped curb the demographic decline.
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
Your work must be really fascinating for you to have sacrificed everything for it...

There are only a handful of positions in France. And I’m not telling you Brittany is the problem; you annoy me with your prejudices and clichés, so I’m telling you the truth.

Michel
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
Houses for 40,000 € in Brittany aren’t common. Plus, after negotiation, how much do they end up costing?

40,000 or 50,000—yes, my whole street. Often, they’re bought up by municipalities and turned into social housing: Roma, Parisians in crisis.

In inland Brittany, you’re never far from the ocean or the sea. Even in small towns like Ploermel or Pontivy, housing is expensive. Not to mention farmland—check the price per hectare. Now there are even vineyard lands. The region’s attractive, people are moving in, so the demographic decline has been halted.

If you want to believe it 😏

Michel
PO Poste42 Veteran ·
I’ll believe it when I see it... I don’t trust that word—it’s not in my vocabulary. It means the person using it isn’t sure of themselves. I’m certain of that.
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
The week has confirmed that the real topic of this discussion is: Brittany according to Tatra (season 6).

No, but you’re all so curious—and so skeptical—about this that I’ll make an effort to explain. 😏 And stop playing naive; some of you here love getting your fur ruffled by my ideas, which don’t align with yours or your experiences as tourists.

Trying to prove that Brittany is in sharp decline by comparing it to a French administrative region, two countries long under Soviet influence that only started in the market economy three or four decades ago, the wealthiest autonomous community in Spain, and—cherry on the cake—Ireland, whose current success is solely due to tax dumping and being controlled by multinationals, is like comparing apples and oranges (from Léon).

I don’t see how this is incomparable, unless you’ve already decided nothing can be compared.

The data differs, and while comparison isn’t always reasonable, let’s look at Brittany’s evolution relative to other French regions: between 1990 and 2020, its GDP growth slightly outpaced the country’s (in %). Hardly a steep decline.

The founders of CELIB explained that 1960s Brittany was a region on the brink of underdevelopment—not so much because of the French state, but due to a lack of creativity, ambition, and classical virtue among Bretons. There was a revival, as they say, but right now, the situation is tough. You’re presenting Brittany as a monolith; I don’t doubt that in Vannes, Auray, Dinard, Saint-Malo, or Quiberon, the GDP is high. But the contrasts are huge between this very wealthy, bourgeois, and frankly inaccessible coastal strip (even for other Bretons) and the rest of the region... Between organic farms on the coast where customers arrive in Porsche Cayennes and the *penty* without toilets in Gurunhuel or the suburbs of Rostrenen, there’s a world of difference. Brittany’s sociology is complex, with rural areas often leaning far left or having communist traditions. You refuse to compare incomparable things, yet that’s exactly what you’re doing.

Michel
AT Attila Globetrotter ·
CELIB

Honestly, the owner of this app didn’t exactly break a sweat coming up with that name.
MA Mathews Globetrotter ·
Not so much because of the French state, but rather due to a lack of creativity, ambition, and virtue in the classical sense, among the Bretons.

Hello again, You’re one of millions of French people who spend their time criticizing the system while expecting a lot from state handouts. But if you criticize the things that are wrong in Brittany, why don’t you yourself show some creativity? Why don’t you start your own business and make millions in turnover? In Brittany, I’m sure there are tons of entrepreneurs who are *actually* taking initiative, hiring people, and helping improve the system.
PO Poste42 Veteran ·
Yeah, that’s exactly it—the French are known for being grumpy, especially when abroad.
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
you are one of millions of French people who spend their time criticizing the system and expecting a lot from the state's generosity.

I don’t expect anything from the state, and I actually think it meddles in far too many things in France. You’ve misunderstood my point.

Why don’t you start your own business and make millions in revenue? In Brittany, I’m sure there are tons of entrepreneurs who are really taking action, hiring people, and helping improve the system.

Actually, no—you don’t understand the Breton mentality at all. This summer in Kosovo, I was reflecting on how Kosovars left their country, but wherever they went, they started businesses, teamed up, moved around, and came back with stacks of 500 € bills. Sure, there are companies here, but they tend to just get by. They hire based on family ties or connections and are rarely open to outsiders. There are also a lot of people who don’t want businesses around, seeing them as a nuisance... Beyond the never-built Saint-Jacques-de-la-Lande airport, there are plenty of examples—salmon farms, fish farms, mining operations, pig and poultry farms—all rejected in the name of a "quiet" life. It’s a mindset.

Again, you’re operating under this whole imaginary idea of Brittany as some literary construct. Even Bretons themselves buy into it, convinced they’re welcoming, for example, or that their identity is tied to gray granite monuments, a rugged visual and moral landscape, or that they’re entrepreneurial—when that’s just an illusion. Identities are social constructs, after all.

There’s a line of people in this discussion ready to doubt my experiences, but do *you* have any concrete experience to share—something grounded in time and place that we could actually relate to? Kola, Voyajou, for instance: you claim to know Brittany and jump on my explanations year after year without ever showing your cards. And what about post-travel reflections—any experiences to share there?

Michel
JO Jojoone1 Globetrotter ·
Yes, that’s exactly it—French people are known to grumble, especially when abroad.

Ah, here’s one of the perks of coming back to France: the chance to grumble together about all the injustices and daily hassles we face 😉
AT Attila Globetrotter ·
Do you at least have a concrete experience to share, one that has a specific time and place context so we can understand each other better?

A few here.

Ubisoft, Yves Rocher, BB Hotels, Leclerc...

Pinault, Bolloré...

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