Oser partir?
by Fildariane
This discussion is in French, the community’s main language.
Original post
Depuis qq tps, ai envie de partir travailler à l'étranger...
Mais j'ai 2 enfants, ai- je le droit de les déracinés ?
Je serais seule, je sais que je le ferais sans aucune hésitation !
Faut-il attendre que le tps passe, ou l'imposer aux personnes qu'on aime ?
Bonjour,
les "racines" de vos enfants, c'est vous, où que vous soyiez. Pour les autres membres de la famille, les copains, aujourd'hui, il y a suffisamment de moyens de communication pour garder le contact.
En avez-vous déjà parlé à vos enfants pour que vous craigniez de leur "imposer" votre envie ?
les "racines" de vos enfants, c'est vous, où que vous soyiez. Pour les autres membres de la famille, les copains, aujourd'hui, il y a suffisamment de moyens de communication pour garder le contact.
En avez-vous déjà parlé à vos enfants pour que vous craigniez de leur "imposer" votre envie ?
Bonjour,
Oui, j'en ai déjà parlé avec eux. Pour la grande (15 ans) elle me dit qu'il n'y a aucun soucis (selon elle du moment qu'elle est avec moi tout va bien!) mais est-elle vraiment consciente du manque qu'elle pourrait peut-être avoir à être loin de son père, sa grd-mère, sa meilleure amie?
Quant au pt (11 ans aujourd'hui) il ne dit rien, il écoute...
Ps : j'ai aimé votre phrase : "les racines de vos enfants, c'est vs, où que vs soyiez"
Bonjour fildariane, si tu te sens plus heureuse et plus épanouie en changeant ainsi ta vie je crois que tes enfants auraient plus à gagner qu'à perdre de cette ambiance familiale redynamisée..😊
Par ailleurs, d'après ce que j'ai observé autour de moi, une ou plusieurs expérience de vie " ailleurs", ça marque un enfant ou un ado pour toujours, le plus souvent positivement, c'est souvent une ouverture, un enrichissement extraordinaire et ceux que je connais y ont gagné le virus du voyage ou carrément de l'expatriation..! Comme tu as eu la prudence et l'honneteté de tater le terrain avec eux, et que ça ne se présente pas trop mal.. pourquoi ne pas suivre cette aspiration profonde ?
Et meme si vous traversez des tas de petites galères matérielles ou d'adaptation, ça leur apprendra la vie et ça peut contribuer à vous souder davantage.. Bonne chance à toi !
Bonjour,
merci pour ton message et si je suis mon "aspiration profonde", je te tiendrait au courant. A bientôt.
bonjour, cest une bonne question mais plus complexe qu'il n'y parait;
effectivement il y a son desir et la possibilite que les enfants s'epanouissent a l'etranger, mais, souvent a l'age des tiens, ceux ci ont des reperes puissants, familiaux, amicaux(c'est important a 15 ans)et sociaux.
j'aurai tendance a penser que c'est une bonne chose d'emigrer, (encore que cela depende du pays et des conditions), mais je ne crois pas que leurs racines profondes ce soit uniquement vous, loin de la.
mais bon, c'est toujours une experience plutot enrichissante et a essayer, sans trop de crainte, si vous en avez parle ensemble.
de toute facon rien n'est definitif et les enfants ont une capacite insoupconnee d'adaptation, (les ados parfois un peu moins)
just do it
ludo
re,
les informations supplémentaires que vous avez apportées dans votre deuxième message (âge de tes enfants, situation familiale) modifient pas mal les choses. Comme l'a écrit Javaludo, c'est plus complexe (je n'ai pas écrit impossible !)
Votre fille vous suit-elle par adhésion ou pour vous faire plaisir ? Les silences de votre fils sont-ils de l'indifférence, du "cékankonyva" ou des inquiétudes ? Qu'en dit le papa ?
Vos enfants sont effectivement grands, et à un âge où beaucoup de choses se bousculent dans leur tête. Il serait sage d'en parler sereinement et sincèrement avec eux, qu'ils puissent s'exprimer sans avoir peur de vous faire mal (ils ont sans doute compris qu'il s'agit pour vous d'une "aspiration profonde") si cette aspiration profonde n'est pas la leur. Peut-être en parlent-ils autour d'eux (à leur père, à leur grand-mère, à leurs amis).
Qu'en est-il professionnellement ? Auriez-vous la possibilité de garder votre poste en Belgique en cas de retour au pays ?
Sans renoncer à votre aspiration, prenez le temps nécesaire pour vous assurer que votre projet suscite une adhésion réelle.
les informations supplémentaires que vous avez apportées dans votre deuxième message (âge de tes enfants, situation familiale) modifient pas mal les choses. Comme l'a écrit Javaludo, c'est plus complexe (je n'ai pas écrit impossible !)
Votre fille vous suit-elle par adhésion ou pour vous faire plaisir ? Les silences de votre fils sont-ils de l'indifférence, du "cékankonyva" ou des inquiétudes ? Qu'en dit le papa ?
Vos enfants sont effectivement grands, et à un âge où beaucoup de choses se bousculent dans leur tête. Il serait sage d'en parler sereinement et sincèrement avec eux, qu'ils puissent s'exprimer sans avoir peur de vous faire mal (ils ont sans doute compris qu'il s'agit pour vous d'une "aspiration profonde") si cette aspiration profonde n'est pas la leur. Peut-être en parlent-ils autour d'eux (à leur père, à leur grand-mère, à leurs amis).
Qu'en est-il professionnellement ? Auriez-vous la possibilité de garder votre poste en Belgique en cas de retour au pays ?
Sans renoncer à votre aspiration, prenez le temps nécesaire pour vous assurer que votre projet suscite une adhésion réelle.
Ce serait pour partir où ?
En fonction de l'éloignement, la situation n'est pas la même...
Cyrille
Je suis assez d'accord avec les deux posts précédents. A 15 ans, on a déjà commencé à construire sa vie "en dehors des parents". On se crée ses propres racines et il n'est pas toujours facile de tout lâcher pour suivre ses parents.
Néanmoins de nombreuses expatriations avec des enfants grands ont parfaitement réussies. On peut s'adapter partout. Je crois que vous prenez la bonne direction en prenant le temps d'en parler avec vos enfants.
Peut-être que votre fils de 11 ans sera plus réceptif si vous pouvez lui expliquer concrètement vos projets : pays où vous comptez vous installer, durée de l'expatriation, possibilités de revenir en France de temps à autres...
Je crois que pour que vos enfants puissent élaborer une réflexion sur votre désir, il faut que vous soyez vous-mêmes très claires dans votre tête, afin de ne pas les perdre dans vos propres hésitations.
bonjour,
ce serait pour partir en martinique, ou en guadeloupe.
Bonsoir, je viens de regarder ton profil, d'après ce que tu y as inscrit, tu n'es jamais allée en Martinique ou en Guadeloupe..? Oups, ça change tout.. une destination dont tu ne connais que la représentation que tu t'en fais ?
Ton projet ne mériterait il pas une visite de repérage ..? 🤪
bonjour
comme te le dis Melizande, il serait bien que tu fasses 1 petit voyage sur place, car vu de loin ça à l'air sympa, soleil, plage ...mais il n'y a pas que des côtés positifs .
la vie y est assez cher et le travail pas toujours facile .
pour des vacances c'est superbe, mais y habiter pas si évident ...
évidemment l'éloignement des enfants, qui ont encore plus besoin d'1 père à l'adolescence peut aussi poser problème...
mais qui ne tente rien n'a rien !
as-tu 1 travail prévu ou pas ?
connais -tu des gens sur place ?
beaucoup de questions à se poser .
belle journée
francia
le mérite d'un homme réside dans sa connaissance et dans ses actes et non point dans la couleur de sa peau ou de sa religion!
Khalil Gibran
"oser partir" : se poser la question c'est déjà un premier pas ! poser la question sur Voyage Forum, c'est un second pas 😉 et chaque réponse reçue aussi ! dans quelques jours vous aurez fait une "percée" prépàrant à une envolée ... maîtrisée😉
et puis "fild'Ariane" n'est-ce pas une "assurance" supplémentaire ! c'est une décision qui doit-être mûrie ... recherchez sur le site les discussions concernant les deux îles que vous mentionnez ... les avis sont contreversés ...
bonne route ... quelle qu'elle soit.
"pendant un instant l'usage des yeux : la lecture du monde. italo Calvino "Paroles de voyageurs" si tu n'as pas étudié, voyage".
La question est plus complexe qu’elle ne parait, car elle soulève une multitude de questionnements qui sont loin de se résumer au lien entre une mère et ses enfants ni non plus à la question des racines, mais plus à la capacité d’adaptation dans un environnement autre que celui où l’on a toujours vécu. Je vais être long dans mon poste car se poser les bonnes questions permet d’avoir les bonnes réponses….
Il ya une différence entre le désir de partir et les capacités réelles d’intégration dans un autre environnement. Il ya aussi une différence énorme dans la construction de la personnalité entre le groupe d’appartenance qui fait allusion à ses racines (sauf que les racines sont multiples et ne se résument plus au seul environnement familial) et le groupe de référence qui lui fait se définit à tout ce qu’on aspire et qui nous sert de mos modèles pour concevoir notre projet de vie.
Cela dit le problème de l’intégration des enfants au vu de la séparation d’un espace de vie originelle est un faux problème, surtout si l’on se laisse bercer par ses formules belles mais sans fondement réel du genre : « les "racines" de vos enfants, c'est vous, où que vous soyez.
C’est oublier que les racines font partie de cet imaginaire qui a de moins en moins pignon sur rue pour la grande majorité des jeunes générations : le groupe de référence est de moins en moins les parents que les jeunes de leur génération. On ne se projette plus dans le future en voulant devenir comme papa ou maman mais on voulant se faire reconnaître par l’intégration des concepts des gens de leur génération. D’où l’expression en vogue dans ce mouvement de pensée générationnelle « c’est has been (anglicisme signifiant littéralement « a été » est, avec une connotation péjorative, quelqu'un ou quelque chose de désuet.
Mais mon Dieu merci s’il existe que le voyage ne soit pas encore un concept has been chez les jeunes. Au contraire C4EST MÊME fUN DE VOYAGER, c'est moderne : les enfants s’éclatent justement dans des projets ou des rêves de voyages avec cette illusion : " le voyage forme la jeunesse" surtout les pré adolescents et les adolescents qui rêvent de partir (c'est la voie royale de l'émancipation) et de découvrir le monde tel que le construit leur imaginaire : tout le monde il est bon tout le monde il est beau ailleurs que chez nous, une manière de fuir la dure réalité du quotidien, qui se résume souvent pour eux à fait ce ci fait cela, ne fait pas ceci, ne fait cela. C’est l’âge où ils sont l’impression de tout savoir et donc revendique une reconnaissance de leur soit disant valeur propre ( j’ai pas envie…) oubliant les dangers de la vie, dont jene citerai aucun exemple pour ne pas sombrer dans le jugement de valeurs. Et oui ce sont les symptomes de cette fameuse crise d’adolescence qui se vit au moment où l’on l’attends moins. mais ça ressemble fort au démon de minuit dont les symptome de mal être font penser à une crise d'adolescence tardive
Si les adultes ont leur démon de minuit, les enfants ont leur crise d’adolescent, période où l’on a envie de tout claquer pour recommencer ailleurs une nouvelles vie celle là que l’on s’est imaginer et que les péripéties de la vie nous ont obligé à faire d’autre choix. La volonté de partir se prépare autrement : non pas dans les préoccupations de ruptures mais dans les acquisitions qui nous permettent de créer ailleurs un nouvel cadre de vie qui se présentera meilleur que celui que nous abandonnons. Bien sur ces acquisitions ne sont pas seulement matérielles, elles sont aussi et surtout immatérielles comme l’est une grande partie de ce qui nous permet de définit le bonheur. Partir ne se fait jamais impunément alors nos interventions seront moins des conseils que des questionnements pour que tu conçoives mieux ton projet de vie dans cet exil volontaire sans te cacher derrière de faux semblant car même si tu n’as jamais vécu dans un endroit tu peux tout à fait t’y plaire cela dépendra de ta personnalité à accepter le changer et les remise en cause sans te dépersonnaliser. Car à trop vouloir être comme les autres on finit par ne plus savoir qui on est. Le tout est de savoir s’imprégner des autres en restant soi ce mélange de nouveau et d’ancien qui rend notre culture si riche. Fais de voyages de plus d’un mois avant de partir définitivement pour vivre sous d’autres cieux. Cela fait partir de la préparation comme un sportif qui s’échauffe avant d’entamer la compétition.
Conclusion : la vrai question n'est pas d'OSER PARTIR, mais comment partir ou du moins comment préparer son départ. Courage et bonne chance dans ta nouvelle aventure en préparation
au lieu de rever sa vie ne faut-il pas mieux vivre ses reves
Tout dépend de l'âge de tes enfants.
J'ai travaillé un peu partout dans le monde jusqu'au 5 ans de ma fille qui correspondait à la naissance de mon fils (en 2002). A partir de ses 5 ans, ma femme et moi avons préféré nous stabiliser à un endroit pour qu'elle puisse commence à tisser ses propres relations avec ses amies.
Il ne faut pas croire que tous les enfants aiment être déracinés. C'est loin d'être le cas.
J'ai travaillé un peu partout dans le monde jusqu'au 5 ans de ma fille qui correspondait à la naissance de mon fils (en 2002). A partir de ses 5 ans, ma femme et moi avons préféré nous stabiliser à un endroit pour qu'elle puisse commence à tisser ses propres relations avec ses amies.
Il ne faut pas croire que tous les enfants aiment être déracinés. C'est loin d'être le cas.
Bonsoir,
La vraie question est elle : Oser partir, ... avec un vrai projet, un pays cible bien identifié, l'assurance matérielle à l'arrivée... Ou comme dans beaucoup de messages de ce genre, .... vouloir fuir ... ???
Dans le premier cas, cela se décide en famille, à l'occasion d'un voyage préléminaire, en faisant participer au projet.
Dans le 2eme cas, inutile d'accumuler les galères, et de les faire subir aux enfants.
La vraie question est elle : Oser partir, ... avec un vrai projet, un pays cible bien identifié, l'assurance matérielle à l'arrivée... Ou comme dans beaucoup de messages de ce genre, .... vouloir fuir ... ???
Dans le premier cas, cela se décide en famille, à l'occasion d'un voyage préléminaire, en faisant participer au projet.
Dans le 2eme cas, inutile d'accumuler les galères, et de les faire subir aux enfants.
Hmmh...je ne suis pas tout à fait d'accord avec ce que tu dis. Ta vision de l'adolescence sans être inexacte me paraît incomplète.
période où l’on a envie de tout claquer pour recommencer ailleurs une nouvelles vie celle là que l’on s’est imaginer et que les péripéties de la vie nous ont obligé à faire d’autre choix.
Ce n'est pas toujours le cas. Il me semble qu'un certain nombre d'adolescents ne veut justement pas recommencer ailleurs, mais au contraire s'enraciner dans un lieu, pour commencer à construire quelque chose.
Comme le dit GilesB, il me semble que tous les enfants n'aiment pas être déracinés.
Reste ensuite la question des fondements du refus éventuel d'un ado ou d'un enfant d'être déraciné. C'est souvent par crainte de ne pas retrouver ailleurs ce qu'on a déjà ici (en particulier les amis). Je connais des ados qui sont partis à la Réunion en rechignant, fachés avec leurs parents qui leur imposaient ce départ, ils sont aujourd'hui ravis d'avoir vécu cette expérience. D'autres qui se disaient enchantés de partir ont vite déchanté et ont bien amèrement regretté leur vie précédente.
période où l’on a envie de tout claquer pour recommencer ailleurs une nouvelles vie celle là que l’on s’est imaginer et que les péripéties de la vie nous ont obligé à faire d’autre choix.
Ce n'est pas toujours le cas. Il me semble qu'un certain nombre d'adolescents ne veut justement pas recommencer ailleurs, mais au contraire s'enraciner dans un lieu, pour commencer à construire quelque chose.
Comme le dit GilesB, il me semble que tous les enfants n'aiment pas être déracinés.
Reste ensuite la question des fondements du refus éventuel d'un ado ou d'un enfant d'être déraciné. C'est souvent par crainte de ne pas retrouver ailleurs ce qu'on a déjà ici (en particulier les amis). Je connais des ados qui sont partis à la Réunion en rechignant, fachés avec leurs parents qui leur imposaient ce départ, ils sont aujourd'hui ravis d'avoir vécu cette expérience. D'autres qui se disaient enchantés de partir ont vite déchanté et ont bien amèrement regretté leur vie précédente.
FILDARIANE: J'adore ta réponse tres réfléchie ... Et pleine de sagesse et d'espoir. 🙂 ça me stimule dans ma réflexion à moi aussi malgré que je partirais seule.
Bonjour fildariane, si tu te sens plus heureuse et plus épanouie en changeant ainsi ta vie je crois que tes enfants auraient plus à gagner qu'à perdre de cette ambiance familiale redynamisée..😊 Par ailleurs, d'après ce que j'ai observé autour de moi, une ou plusieurs expérience de vie " ailleurs", ça marque un enfant ou un ado pour toujours, le plus souvent positivement, c'est souvent une ouverture, un enrichissement extraordinaire et ceux que je connais y ont gagné le virus du voyage ou carrément de l'expatriation..! Comme tu as eu la prudence et l'honneteté de tater le terrain avec eux, et que ça ne se présente pas trop mal.. pourquoi ne pas suivre cette aspiration profonde ? Et meme si vous traversez des tas de petites galères matérielles ou d'adaptation, ça leur apprendra la vie et ça peut contribuer à vous souder davantage.. Bonne chance à toi !
Bonjour fildariane, si tu te sens plus heureuse et plus épanouie en changeant ainsi ta vie je crois que tes enfants auraient plus à gagner qu'à perdre de cette ambiance familiale redynamisée..😊 Par ailleurs, d'après ce que j'ai observé autour de moi, une ou plusieurs expérience de vie " ailleurs", ça marque un enfant ou un ado pour toujours, le plus souvent positivement, c'est souvent une ouverture, un enrichissement extraordinaire et ceux que je connais y ont gagné le virus du voyage ou carrément de l'expatriation..! Comme tu as eu la prudence et l'honneteté de tater le terrain avec eux, et que ça ne se présente pas trop mal.. pourquoi ne pas suivre cette aspiration profonde ? Et meme si vous traversez des tas de petites galères matérielles ou d'adaptation, ça leur apprendra la vie et ça peut contribuer à vous souder davantage.. Bonne chance à toi !
Tout est impermanent (principe boudhiste)
Bonjour,
Je suis Belge moi aussi et il y a 30 ans j'ai tout quitté pour venir vivre dans le Sud de la France. Je suis arrivée ici avec ma fille agée de 6 ans. Et bien ce n'est pas toujours évident. Ma fille m'a souvent reproché d'être loin de la famille (grands parents, tante, cousins...). Etant divorcée, elle voyait son père lors des vacances scolaires, cela ne posait pas de problème pour elle mais lui l'a très mal vécu et cela a causé pas mal de conflits.
Et comme on dit "il ne faut pas confondre tourisme et émigration", car en tant que vacancière j'étais hyper acceptée dans la région mais lorsque je m'y suis installée définitivement, le regard des gens a changé, j'étais "l'étrangère". On m'a même reproché d'avoir trouvé du travail rapidement, alors que certains français....
Et parfois je me suis demandé si j'avais fait le bon choix et à vrai dire la Belgique me manquait (les gens surtout). Ce qui est difficile à vivre c'est que lorsque on est loin, on idéalise son pays et si on n'y retourne en vacances, après quelques jours, on fait l'inverse, on idéalise l'endroit ou l'on vit et on ne sait plus très bien où on en est.
Le fait de m'investir dans beaucoup d'activités associatives a bien arrangé les choses.
Maintenant, je serais incapable de retourner vivre en Belgique, ma vie est ici. Et ma fille, a la bougeotte, elle travaille surtout à l'étranger (même au bout du monde).
Je ne veux pas te décourager (bien au contraire), je veux juste te faire part de mon expérience.
Bonne chance à toi et à tes enfants. 🙂
Grignanette
Rassure toi je n'ai pas la prétention de détenir la réalité des choses mais pour être précis ne me fait pas dire ce que je n'ai pas dit.
j'ai abordé la question de l'intégration des enfants dans une logique d'opposition entre groupe de référence et groupe d'appartenance ce qui revient à souligner l'importance du déterminisme générationnel au détriment du déterminisme familial. cela n'est pas exclusif, mais cela montre que l'enfant, même s'il a des réticences à plonger dans l'inconnu, a une capacité d'adaptation plus forte car la culture générationnelle, à laquelle il adhère, dépasse, de nos jours dans le contexte de mondialisation, la culture du terroir. A ce propos, cela me rappelle une anecdote de mon jeune age : ma mère adore me titiller en me rapportant le souvenir de mon premier jour d'école. J'avais fait une crise pas possible pour ne pas m'y rendre tellement je me sentais bien à la maison, j'étais entouré d'animaux élévés dans la basse cour. Le soir quand elle vint me chercher à l'école j'étais le dernier à vouloir rentrer à la maison tellement j'étais heureux de m'être fait de nouveaux amis. Depuis ma vie se résume à de longues pérégrinations dont j'en tire beaucoup de bonheur.
L'enfant est qu'il en déplaise à Dolto un être en devenir et il incombe aux parents de faire preuve de pédagogie pour lui donner envie de découvrir autre chose que ce qu'il a pris l'habitude de connaitre et de faire. je ne dis pas qu'il ne faut pas écouter ses envies mais qu'il faut aussi savoir susciter en lui d'autre envie que celle qu'il a apprivoisé. Mais cela n'est qu'une parenthèse car mon propos visait surtout à demontrer que voyager n'était pas encore "has been" dans la jeune génération d'aujourd'hui : c'est d'ailleurs au programme de cinquième et que certaines école ils cotoient pour ceux qui vivent dans les grandes villes d'autres enfants venant d'horizons différentes. Cela dit je n'ai jamais dit qu'il y avait qu'une seule culture adolescente. Je veux simplement dire qu'il y a des possibilités de préparer l'adolescent à s'inscrire dans la dynamique de voyage de sa mère. Et donc que cela n'est pas un handicap dans son désir de partir
Deuxième inexactitude dans ta critique, tu cites des propos de mon post qui ne se référent pas à l'adolescence mais à l'adulte en invoquant sans trop m'attarder le démon de midi, pour évoquer la symbolique du changement radical. C'était pour moi une manière d'amener l'initiateur du débat à préciser les raisons de son désir de partir pour refaire sa vie ailleurs. l'objectif était pour moi de fonder ma conclusion sur la nécessité de préparation du départ sans se réfugier dans la crainte du dépaysement des enfants autrement dit que Partir ailleurs nécessite une préparation plus profonde que celle que l'on consacre à un simple voyage car partir ne se fait jamais impunément.
j'admets que je me suis aventuré à mettre sur une ligne comparative le démon de midi qui se déclare en général chez l'adulte vers la quarantaine et la crise d'adolescence. cela a sans doute créé une confusion dans mon exposé. je m'en excuse
j'ai abordé la question de l'intégration des enfants dans une logique d'opposition entre groupe de référence et groupe d'appartenance ce qui revient à souligner l'importance du déterminisme générationnel au détriment du déterminisme familial. cela n'est pas exclusif, mais cela montre que l'enfant, même s'il a des réticences à plonger dans l'inconnu, a une capacité d'adaptation plus forte car la culture générationnelle, à laquelle il adhère, dépasse, de nos jours dans le contexte de mondialisation, la culture du terroir. A ce propos, cela me rappelle une anecdote de mon jeune age : ma mère adore me titiller en me rapportant le souvenir de mon premier jour d'école. J'avais fait une crise pas possible pour ne pas m'y rendre tellement je me sentais bien à la maison, j'étais entouré d'animaux élévés dans la basse cour. Le soir quand elle vint me chercher à l'école j'étais le dernier à vouloir rentrer à la maison tellement j'étais heureux de m'être fait de nouveaux amis. Depuis ma vie se résume à de longues pérégrinations dont j'en tire beaucoup de bonheur.
L'enfant est qu'il en déplaise à Dolto un être en devenir et il incombe aux parents de faire preuve de pédagogie pour lui donner envie de découvrir autre chose que ce qu'il a pris l'habitude de connaitre et de faire. je ne dis pas qu'il ne faut pas écouter ses envies mais qu'il faut aussi savoir susciter en lui d'autre envie que celle qu'il a apprivoisé. Mais cela n'est qu'une parenthèse car mon propos visait surtout à demontrer que voyager n'était pas encore "has been" dans la jeune génération d'aujourd'hui : c'est d'ailleurs au programme de cinquième et que certaines école ils cotoient pour ceux qui vivent dans les grandes villes d'autres enfants venant d'horizons différentes. Cela dit je n'ai jamais dit qu'il y avait qu'une seule culture adolescente. Je veux simplement dire qu'il y a des possibilités de préparer l'adolescent à s'inscrire dans la dynamique de voyage de sa mère. Et donc que cela n'est pas un handicap dans son désir de partir
Deuxième inexactitude dans ta critique, tu cites des propos de mon post qui ne se référent pas à l'adolescence mais à l'adulte en invoquant sans trop m'attarder le démon de midi, pour évoquer la symbolique du changement radical. C'était pour moi une manière d'amener l'initiateur du débat à préciser les raisons de son désir de partir pour refaire sa vie ailleurs. l'objectif était pour moi de fonder ma conclusion sur la nécessité de préparation du départ sans se réfugier dans la crainte du dépaysement des enfants autrement dit que Partir ailleurs nécessite une préparation plus profonde que celle que l'on consacre à un simple voyage car partir ne se fait jamais impunément.
j'admets que je me suis aventuré à mettre sur une ligne comparative le démon de midi qui se déclare en général chez l'adulte vers la quarantaine et la crise d'adolescence. cela a sans doute créé une confusion dans mon exposé. je m'en excuse
au lieu de rever sa vie ne faut-il pas mieux vivre ses reves
Bonjour gogirl ! Mazette, le chemin de compostelle a bien changé..! Meme une piscine avec palmiers pour rafraichir les pieds des pélerins.. je ne te le fais pas dire, tout est impermanent.😛
Le soir quand elle vint me chercher à l'école j'étais le dernier à vouloir rentrer à la maison tellement j'étais heureux de m'être fait de nouveaux amis.
La façon dont nous éduquons nos enfants détermine les adultes qu'ils deviendront. C'est une évidence.
Dans mes expériences d'expatrié, j'ai rencontré beaucoup d'expatriés que je qualifie "d'expatriés à répétition" c'est à dire des gens qui depuis 20 ou 30 ans ont vécu dans 10 ou 15 pays différents. Ces personnes sont souvent eux-mêmes enfants "d'expatriés à répétition", Ces expatriés ont, semble-t-il, des difficultés à se poser quelque part et rencontrent des difficultés à tisser de véritables liens avec leur entourage. Ils en résultent des personnes très sympathiques au demeurant mais sans ami véritable. C'est aussi ça le revers de la mobilité.
Ma femme et moi en avons été assez effrayés pour nos enfants et c'est une des raisons qui ont fait qu'à l'âge où ma fille devait commencer à se faire des amies, nous avons décidé d'interrompre cette vie d'expatriés pour une vie plus sédentaire (entrecoupée de voyages touristiques) afin qu'elle ait une base stable.
La façon dont nous éduquons nos enfants détermine les adultes qu'ils deviendront. C'est une évidence.
Dans mes expériences d'expatrié, j'ai rencontré beaucoup d'expatriés que je qualifie "d'expatriés à répétition" c'est à dire des gens qui depuis 20 ou 30 ans ont vécu dans 10 ou 15 pays différents. Ces personnes sont souvent eux-mêmes enfants "d'expatriés à répétition", Ces expatriés ont, semble-t-il, des difficultés à se poser quelque part et rencontrent des difficultés à tisser de véritables liens avec leur entourage. Ils en résultent des personnes très sympathiques au demeurant mais sans ami véritable. C'est aussi ça le revers de la mobilité.
Ma femme et moi en avons été assez effrayés pour nos enfants et c'est une des raisons qui ont fait qu'à l'âge où ma fille devait commencer à se faire des amies, nous avons décidé d'interrompre cette vie d'expatriés pour une vie plus sédentaire (entrecoupée de voyages touristiques) afin qu'elle ait une base stable.
Il y eu effectivement une confusion de compréhension et je suis désormais tout à fait d'accord avec toi (enfin il me semble). C'est ce que j'essayais de dire dans le dernier paragraphe de ma réponse. Un adolescent (tout comme un enfant et un adulte d'ailleurs) aura souvent tendance à préférer l'immobilisme rassurant à la mise en danger que représente un départ. La différence tient au fait que l'enfant ou l'adolescent "subit" la décision de ses parents alors que les adultes construisent leur choix.
Construire un départ avec ses enfants, c'est aussi leur montrer, leur expliquer que leur vie ne sera pas foutue du fait de ce départ mais qu'ils pourront continuer à construire des choses, même en dehors de leur cadre initial.
Petite question, qu'entends-tu pas démon de midi, je ne saisis pas très bien.
Bonjour
En effet si tu desires t`installer en Martinique ou meme en Guadeloupe il faut d`abord aller y passer quelque temps, car tout cela parait idyliique, la plage, le soleil... mais il y a aussi la realite a cote : fort taux de chomage, adaptation au climat car des fois certains ne s`y adaptent pas et si le contact avec la population la bas se passe bien, la bas la vie coute cher et oui surtout l`alimentation car tout ce qui est produit alimentaire vient de la Metropole. Par ailleurs on ne s`installe pas ailleurs comme ca sur un coup de tete, il faut d`abord prospecter, voir quel est le meilleur endroit ou s`installer, car beaucoup d`embouteillages dans ces 2 iles, trouver un logement qui convienne... Ceci ne sont que des conseils. Sinon pour ce qui est de tes enfants il faut savoir vraiment ce qu`ils en pensent, ce qui les inquiete a propos de l`installation, pourquoi ils sont contents d`aller habiter peut etre la bas, savoir ce qui va leur manquer en Metropole... mais sinon pour l`integration pour eux, je ne pense pas qu`il y aura de grands soucis.
Si jamais ton projet prend davantage forme et que tu veux plus d`infos concernant la martinique contacte moi en mp. 😉
En effet si tu desires t`installer en Martinique ou meme en Guadeloupe il faut d`abord aller y passer quelque temps, car tout cela parait idyliique, la plage, le soleil... mais il y a aussi la realite a cote : fort taux de chomage, adaptation au climat car des fois certains ne s`y adaptent pas et si le contact avec la population la bas se passe bien, la bas la vie coute cher et oui surtout l`alimentation car tout ce qui est produit alimentaire vient de la Metropole. Par ailleurs on ne s`installe pas ailleurs comme ca sur un coup de tete, il faut d`abord prospecter, voir quel est le meilleur endroit ou s`installer, car beaucoup d`embouteillages dans ces 2 iles, trouver un logement qui convienne... Ceci ne sont que des conseils. Sinon pour ce qui est de tes enfants il faut savoir vraiment ce qu`ils en pensent, ce qui les inquiete a propos de l`installation, pourquoi ils sont contents d`aller habiter peut etre la bas, savoir ce qui va leur manquer en Metropole... mais sinon pour l`integration pour eux, je ne pense pas qu`il y aura de grands soucis.
Si jamais ton projet prend davantage forme et que tu veux plus d`infos concernant la martinique contacte moi en mp. 😉
😏 mdrrrrrr.... faudrait-il que je lise un peu avant d'écrire n'importe quoi !!! J'aimerais faire COMPOSTELLE et ma photo est en Jamaique !!! rectification faite 🙂
Tout est impermanent (principe boudhiste)
Bonsoir Fildariane,
j'ai lu ton résumé puis lu aussi les réactions des autres internautes😉 Je suis très sensible à ta situation et je comprend ton hésitation. Effectivement, avant de "Oser partir", il faut préparer ce départ, réfléchir à tous mes surtout aux bienêtre de tes enfants. Je n'ai pas de conseils à te donner mais ce que je peux dire, c'est que pour ma part, j'ai aussi envie de PARTIR. Je ne pense pas vouloir fuir...je souhaite vraiment quitter le sol français pour une durée indeterminée. Je suis d'origine tunisienne avec des parents qui vivent en France. Je parle le tunisien et j'ai la double nationalité et c'est ce pays que j'ai choisi. C'est plus facile pour moi car j'ai un logement et j'ai un peu de famille. Le seul "j'ai envie de dire problème" mais ce n'est pas vraiment un problème, c'est que j'ai une fille de 9 ans. Je partage la garde avec son père. Je lui en ai parlé et elle est catégorique, elle ne souhaite pas me suivre. Elle a un petit frère de 1 an qu'elle ne veut pas quitter...comme je la comprend, mais moi, je veux partir et tenter une nouvelle vie dans mon pays d'origine. Alors, que faire à ton avis? Tout laisser tomber? Ou prendre sur moi, et partir tout de même et revoir ma fille pendant les vacances scolaires? J'ai choisi de tenter l'expérience "on peut penser" = mère indigne ou mère sans coeur...Pour ma part, je lui explique que parfois la vie nous met face à des décisions parfois difficile mais qu'il faut faire un choix. Je ne suis pas heureuse, je n'aime pas mon travail, je ne supporte plus la société française et en plus avec la crise ça devient très difficile pour moi (je suis seule) et je me sens esclave de ma vie. J'aime ma fille comme tu peux aimer tes enfants et "même si elle est très jeune" elle ne veut pas partir...et je ne peux pas lui imoposer ce départ qui je pense prévu fin 2009. Mais dans cette décision difficile, je me console en me disant que la tunisie c'est pas loin, son père est d'origine tunisienne aussi, et qu'elle pourra toujours venir voir sa mère pour les vacances et qui sait "je peux revenir" ou "elle peut changer d'avis" DIEU seul le sait.. Voilà, je te souhaite bien du courage et sois forte dans tes choix... Gena
j'ai lu ton résumé puis lu aussi les réactions des autres internautes😉 Je suis très sensible à ta situation et je comprend ton hésitation. Effectivement, avant de "Oser partir", il faut préparer ce départ, réfléchir à tous mes surtout aux bienêtre de tes enfants. Je n'ai pas de conseils à te donner mais ce que je peux dire, c'est que pour ma part, j'ai aussi envie de PARTIR. Je ne pense pas vouloir fuir...je souhaite vraiment quitter le sol français pour une durée indeterminée. Je suis d'origine tunisienne avec des parents qui vivent en France. Je parle le tunisien et j'ai la double nationalité et c'est ce pays que j'ai choisi. C'est plus facile pour moi car j'ai un logement et j'ai un peu de famille. Le seul "j'ai envie de dire problème" mais ce n'est pas vraiment un problème, c'est que j'ai une fille de 9 ans. Je partage la garde avec son père. Je lui en ai parlé et elle est catégorique, elle ne souhaite pas me suivre. Elle a un petit frère de 1 an qu'elle ne veut pas quitter...comme je la comprend, mais moi, je veux partir et tenter une nouvelle vie dans mon pays d'origine. Alors, que faire à ton avis? Tout laisser tomber? Ou prendre sur moi, et partir tout de même et revoir ma fille pendant les vacances scolaires? J'ai choisi de tenter l'expérience "on peut penser" = mère indigne ou mère sans coeur...Pour ma part, je lui explique que parfois la vie nous met face à des décisions parfois difficile mais qu'il faut faire un choix. Je ne suis pas heureuse, je n'aime pas mon travail, je ne supporte plus la société française et en plus avec la crise ça devient très difficile pour moi (je suis seule) et je me sens esclave de ma vie. J'aime ma fille comme tu peux aimer tes enfants et "même si elle est très jeune" elle ne veut pas partir...et je ne peux pas lui imoposer ce départ qui je pense prévu fin 2009. Mais dans cette décision difficile, je me console en me disant que la tunisie c'est pas loin, son père est d'origine tunisienne aussi, et qu'elle pourra toujours venir voir sa mère pour les vacances et qui sait "je peux revenir" ou "elle peut changer d'avis" DIEU seul le sait.. Voilà, je te souhaite bien du courage et sois forte dans tes choix... Gena
Bonjour,
Je crois savoir ce que tu ressens... Mère indigne, je ne crois pas;il y aura tjs des gens "bien pensant" qui te diront ou insinueront le contraire, laisse-les parler ces "gens bien". Qd tu dis "esclave de ma vie" je te comprends, c'est un peu mon sentiment, je suis seule également, mais au contraire de toi j'ai la garde complète de mes 2 pts loups...
Je réfléchis bcp à ce départ (depuis très longtemps), toi apparemment, tu as pris ta décision...
La vie passe vite et rien n'est jamais définitif!
Peut-être à bientôt sur ce site, si non, bonne route. Ariane.
Log in first, then come back to this page.
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More discussions
Hi! It was totally by chance that I stumbled upon VoyageForum (an ad online and a story lol), and I’ve been reading some really old posts from 2011 about Thai massage schools—discussions on how to get by, accommodation, prices, etc. It reminded me of my own experience: I kept things simple by staying with a local family during my entire trip. I only shared all the expenses with them, which, I’ll admit, was super cheap… and I often traveled with them, which naturally opened a lot of doors for me. To start, at the school in Salaya, my Thai friend immediately connected me with Teacher Phong (the school’s mentor and teacher of teachers, a former monk). I was supposed to join a group session with other foreigners, but for some reason I don’t know, I got two days of private lessons for free with this expert… incredible! And on top of that, he loved France! It was an amazing experience. I "discovered" massage by chance—the Thai family just told me: "Try it, you’ll see!" (I’d had a pretty intense massage in the capital before 😅… but the next day, I felt unbelievably great!))
Every morning, I’d take a taxi (chosen by the Thai family at prices that beat all the competition) to this school—I’ve forgotten the name of the little village now… right in the heart of the countryside. Then, in the evenings, I’d keep practicing massage on all the family members… and they’d teach me Thai at the same time!))
Since then, I’ve practiced a bit, with lots of positive feedback. Following Teacher Phong’s advice—he thought my pressure was deep, firm, and precise—he strongly encouraged me to take this seriously.
I love Thailand so much. It’s a whole different way of living… and it’s a real blessing, even if I couldn’t live there full-time. Anyway, that was an unforgettable memory, and sometimes the Thai family and I still say hi—from 2011, 2013… right up to today!
Take care, everyone! !
Every morning, I’d take a taxi (chosen by the Thai family at prices that beat all the competition) to this school—I’ve forgotten the name of the little village now… right in the heart of the countryside. Then, in the evenings, I’d keep practicing massage on all the family members… and they’d teach me Thai at the same time!))
Since then, I’ve practiced a bit, with lots of positive feedback. Following Teacher Phong’s advice—he thought my pressure was deep, firm, and precise—he strongly encouraged me to take this seriously.
I love Thailand so much. It’s a whole different way of living… and it’s a real blessing, even if I couldn’t live there full-time. Anyway, that was an unforgettable memory, and sometimes the Thai family and I still say hi—from 2011, 2013… right up to today!
Take care, everyone! !
Hi everyone,
I’m Loulou, a French expat who’s been living in Southeast Asia for about fifteen years, currently in Phnom Penh, Cambodia. A passionate walker at heart, I’ve trekked in Nepal (Thorung La, Mardi Himal), India, Vietnam, and I’m still planning new hikes (Char Dham, Langtang, Annapurna).
I’ve just published my first travel journal, recounting three months of walking and encounters across India. A portion of the sales goes to an educational center I support in Kep, for children whose parents work in the salt marshes.
I’m also working on a second book about Nepal with a musician friend, focusing on the Mardi Himal trek—two independent perspectives on the same journey.
Happy to swap stories with you about the Himalayas, India, Southeast Asia, or just the urge to hit the road and walk far from home.
Safe travels,
Loulou
Hi everyone,
Who’d like to share their best and worst travel memories in a few lines? For me, it’s watching the TAJ MAHAL at sunrise and getting chased by dogs at the top of a mountain pass in GREECE on the way back from ISTANBUL. THANKS GUYS
Who’d like to share their best and worst travel memories in a few lines? For me, it’s watching the TAJ MAHAL at sunrise and getting chased by dogs at the top of a mountain pass in GREECE on the way back from ISTANBUL. THANKS GUYS
"It seems to me that poverty would be less painful in the sun" wrote Aznavour...
Not sure...😕 Who can prove that people in hot countries are happier than others? What do you think?
Is it better to live in Montpellier than in Lille? Are the Pygmies happier than the Inuit? Are Canadians less happy than the people of Louisiana? Are there more French expats in hot countries?
And your travels? Do you choose your destinations based on the climate? Do you rejoice when a bit of sunshine appears?
Not sure...😕 Who can prove that people in hot countries are happier than others? What do you think?
Is it better to live in Montpellier than in Lille? Are the Pygmies happier than the Inuit? Are Canadians less happy than the people of Louisiana? Are there more French expats in hot countries?
And your travels? Do you choose your destinations based on the climate? Do you rejoice when a bit of sunshine appears?
Hi everyone, just this once I’m not posting for a travel story, but to share a thought for Venezuela.
If you didn’t know—since it’s not making headlines—the country was hit by two 7.5-magnitude earthquakes last week. Over 2,200 people have died, more than 50,000 are missing, and some coastal towns have been completely destroyed. Maybe when the scale of the humanitarian crisis becomes clear, our media will cover it a bit more... especially since earthquakes with this many casualties usually make the front page, but there’s been nothing in France.
So here’s a thought for this country, which, whatever you think of its politics, is a true jewel of South America, both for its landscapes and its people.
If you didn’t know—since it’s not making headlines—the country was hit by two 7.5-magnitude earthquakes last week. Over 2,200 people have died, more than 50,000 are missing, and some coastal towns have been completely destroyed. Maybe when the scale of the humanitarian crisis becomes clear, our media will cover it a bit more... especially since earthquakes with this many casualties usually make the front page, but there’s been nothing in France.
So here’s a thought for this country, which, whatever you think of its politics, is a true jewel of South America, both for its landscapes and its people.
hi there
I’d like to invite you to discover my coastal province in central Vietnam: Quang Ngai.
This year, my province has really improved its infrastructure—mountains, countryside, and sea are all authentic here.
No harassers or thieves, and no Russians either.
A local lunch costs around 1 €.
A *** hotel room is about 25 €, and you can find hotels right on My Khe Beach.
We have a specialty: *banh xeo*—10 crepes for just 1.5 €.
You can rent motorbikes to explore the province and maybe visit the many ethnic minorities.
I live here—I’m not selling anything, but I can help if needed (my father-in-law is a traditional Vietnamese doctor and he’s very skilled).
We're planning to spend a month in Vietnam. Is hiring a guide helpful?
Hi everyone! 😉
I’m Typhaine, 35 years old. Five years ago, I left France for a solo round-the-world trip—no planes, just a van, hitchhiking, cycling, and even a canoe in the Amazon! Today, I work as a naturalist guide in Argentine Patagonia.
Wherever I go, my compass stays the same: observing and photographing wildlife, which I deeply admire and respect.
My project: I’d love to share this experience through a sustainable, authentic, and immersive nature tourism initiative. But to build something meaningful, I need to understand how other nature enthusiasts experience their own adventures.
If you:
Are over 20 years old
Have a true passion for Nature
Have already taken at least one trip lasting more than 3 nights (in your country or abroad) in your life
Then... would you have 5 to 7 minutes to help me by filling out this questionnaire? 🙂 »» https://forms.gle/y74ckkvN9TjrougLA
Promise: I’m not selling anything, this isn’t marketing. Your answers are 100% anonymous and will only help me shape this wild project. A huge thank you to everyone for your help and kindness! Looking forward to chatting in this thread 😛
(Dear admins, this is purely a collaborative effort for my project study, with no commercial purpose. Thank you so much for your support!)
Photo: Grizzly Bear (Ursus arctos horribilis), female on the left and her cub on the right. Photo taken by me in Alaska, Denali National Park.
My project: I’d love to share this experience through a sustainable, authentic, and immersive nature tourism initiative. But to build something meaningful, I need to understand how other nature enthusiasts experience their own adventures.
If you:
Are over 20 years old
Have a true passion for Nature
Have already taken at least one trip lasting more than 3 nights (in your country or abroad) in your life
Then... would you have 5 to 7 minutes to help me by filling out this questionnaire? 🙂 »» https://forms.gle/y74ckkvN9TjrougLA
Promise: I’m not selling anything, this isn’t marketing. Your answers are 100% anonymous and will only help me shape this wild project. A huge thank you to everyone for your help and kindness! Looking forward to chatting in this thread 😛
(Dear admins, this is purely a collaborative effort for my project study, with no commercial purpose. Thank you so much for your support!)
Photo: Grizzly Bear (Ursus arctos horribilis), female on the left and her cub on the right. Photo taken by me in Alaska, Denali National Park.
Hello everyone,
It’s something we often notice in this forum—and many others—this behavioral shift.
A long-time member, or even a new one, asks a question. They get one or more answers, some brief, some detailed, and then... nothing???
Not even a simple thank you!!!
From what I’ve gathered, if the answers don’t align with what they wanted to hear, it seems natural for the asker to just disappear!! 😕 Unless—(and I fear this is the case)—basic politeness is no longer part of our society????
Please forgive my little rant.
Wishing everyone all the best. Cheers,
Puma2A

...
It’s something we often notice in this forum—and many others—this behavioral shift.
A long-time member, or even a new one, asks a question. They get one or more answers, some brief, some detailed, and then... nothing???
Not even a simple thank you!!!
From what I’ve gathered, if the answers don’t align with what they wanted to hear, it seems natural for the asker to just disappear!! 😕 Unless—(and I fear this is the case)—basic politeness is no longer part of our society????
Please forgive my little rant.
Wishing everyone all the best. Cheers,
Puma2A

...
I spent 3 weeks in Bali last summer (+ 3 nights on Gili Meno and a day trip to Kawah Ijen in Java). So I wanted to see what ChatGPT could suggest for comparison...
Here’s the prompt I gave:
"You’re a local expert guide for Bali.
- Plan a 20-day itinerary for Bali with a side trip to Gili Meno and a day trip to Kawah Ijen in Java without staying overnight.
- I’m traveling with my wife, and I love visiting historical sites, hiking, relaxing at the beach, snorkeling, and exploring rice terraces...
- For the duration of the stay, I don’t want more than 8 places to sleep, and I’d like to stay at least 2 days at each stop to avoid unpacking too often. Except for the last night, where I’m okay with just one night near the airport.
- I prefer neighborhoods that are walkable and try to avoid typical tourist traps, though I don’t want to miss the must-see spots. So suggest a mix of iconic sites and hidden gems.
- Recommend hotels or guesthouses with a budget of 50 to 100 € per night, including breakfast. Make suggestions in areas popular with travelers, specifying the vibe (I prefer quiet), and consider safety and proximity to attractions.
- For lunch and dinner, suggest two to three restaurants that are well-rated by customers.
- Give me a day-by-day program with details on travel times, visiting times for each point of interest, and recommendations for transportation (taxi, train, bike, etc.). Estimate the total cost of the trip, including accommodations, food, transportation, and activities, and suggest two tips for saving money in each category.
- Don’t make anything up—be realistic about travel times, take into account the opening dates and hours of sites, and give me the entry fees for places to visit.
- Ask me all the questions until you’re 95% sure you understand what’s being asked. Don’t generate your response until you’ve understood."
The AI asked for a few clarifications:
"Great request—I can build you a really optimized and enjoyable itinerary, but to be 95% sure I hit the mark, I need a few key clarifications (this will really influence the pace, areas, and accommodations)."
In the end, it proposed a program very close to what we actually did. I’ll skip its accommodation and restaurant suggestions...
Its proposal:
"Ubud (4 nights) => we did 5 nights Sidemen (2 nights) Amed (3 nights) => we’d planned 2 nights Gili Meno (3 nights) => we did Gili between Sidemen and Amed Munduk (3 nights) => we did 2 nights before Pemuteran Pemuteran (3 nights) with Ijen => we did 4 nights Sanur (2 nights + 1 last night) => we chose Jatiluwih instead of Sanur
It suggested "activities" (and accommodations too):
IN UBUD: - Walk around central Ubud (1–2h) - Campuhan Ridge Walk - Tegalalang Rice Terrace - Tirta Empul - Gunung Kawi - Massage / market / slow café
IN SIDEMEN: - Rice terrace hike (2–3h) - Cooking class
IN AMED: - Snorkeling - Japanese Shipwreck - Beach + relaxation - Volcano sunset
ON GILI: - Snorkeling at Gili Meno Turtle Point, Nest Underwater Statues
IN MUNDUK: - Jungle & waterfall hike - Munduk Waterfall + Melanting Waterfall - Loop: 3–4h (perfect for your level) - Ulun Danu Bratan Temple - Twin Lakes
IN PEMUTERAN - Snorkeling: Menjangan Island
For Kawah Ijen, it detailed the day well: 👍 from Pemuteran = best possible option 12 PM: leave hotel (we left at 10 PM) 1 PM: ferry 3 PM: arrival in Java + transfer 11 PM: start ascent 2 AM–6 AM: volcano Return to Bali around 11 AM–12 PM (we got back at 4 PM) 👍 still very intense, but doable with an agency 💰 ~80–120 €/person all-inclusive
IN SANUR: - Relaxation - Quiet beach - Proximity to airport (30 min)"
BUDGET: "3,000 – 3,900 € for 2 people" (We paid 3,200 €)
In conclusion, it’s not (yet) enough, but it’s (already) pretty impressive!
Here’s the prompt I gave:
"You’re a local expert guide for Bali.
- Plan a 20-day itinerary for Bali with a side trip to Gili Meno and a day trip to Kawah Ijen in Java without staying overnight.
- I’m traveling with my wife, and I love visiting historical sites, hiking, relaxing at the beach, snorkeling, and exploring rice terraces...
- For the duration of the stay, I don’t want more than 8 places to sleep, and I’d like to stay at least 2 days at each stop to avoid unpacking too often. Except for the last night, where I’m okay with just one night near the airport.
- I prefer neighborhoods that are walkable and try to avoid typical tourist traps, though I don’t want to miss the must-see spots. So suggest a mix of iconic sites and hidden gems.
- Recommend hotels or guesthouses with a budget of 50 to 100 € per night, including breakfast. Make suggestions in areas popular with travelers, specifying the vibe (I prefer quiet), and consider safety and proximity to attractions.
- For lunch and dinner, suggest two to three restaurants that are well-rated by customers.
- Give me a day-by-day program with details on travel times, visiting times for each point of interest, and recommendations for transportation (taxi, train, bike, etc.). Estimate the total cost of the trip, including accommodations, food, transportation, and activities, and suggest two tips for saving money in each category.
- Don’t make anything up—be realistic about travel times, take into account the opening dates and hours of sites, and give me the entry fees for places to visit.
- Ask me all the questions until you’re 95% sure you understand what’s being asked. Don’t generate your response until you’ve understood."
The AI asked for a few clarifications:
"Great request—I can build you a really optimized and enjoyable itinerary, but to be 95% sure I hit the mark, I need a few key clarifications (this will really influence the pace, areas, and accommodations)."
In the end, it proposed a program very close to what we actually did. I’ll skip its accommodation and restaurant suggestions...
Its proposal:
"Ubud (4 nights) => we did 5 nights Sidemen (2 nights) Amed (3 nights) => we’d planned 2 nights Gili Meno (3 nights) => we did Gili between Sidemen and Amed Munduk (3 nights) => we did 2 nights before Pemuteran Pemuteran (3 nights) with Ijen => we did 4 nights Sanur (2 nights + 1 last night) => we chose Jatiluwih instead of Sanur
It suggested "activities" (and accommodations too):
IN UBUD: - Walk around central Ubud (1–2h) - Campuhan Ridge Walk - Tegalalang Rice Terrace - Tirta Empul - Gunung Kawi - Massage / market / slow café
IN SIDEMEN: - Rice terrace hike (2–3h) - Cooking class
IN AMED: - Snorkeling - Japanese Shipwreck - Beach + relaxation - Volcano sunset
ON GILI: - Snorkeling at Gili Meno Turtle Point, Nest Underwater Statues
IN MUNDUK: - Jungle & waterfall hike - Munduk Waterfall + Melanting Waterfall - Loop: 3–4h (perfect for your level) - Ulun Danu Bratan Temple - Twin Lakes
IN PEMUTERAN - Snorkeling: Menjangan Island
For Kawah Ijen, it detailed the day well: 👍 from Pemuteran = best possible option 12 PM: leave hotel (we left at 10 PM) 1 PM: ferry 3 PM: arrival in Java + transfer 11 PM: start ascent 2 AM–6 AM: volcano Return to Bali around 11 AM–12 PM (we got back at 4 PM) 👍 still very intense, but doable with an agency 💰 ~80–120 €/person all-inclusive
IN SANUR: - Relaxation - Quiet beach - Proximity to airport (30 min)"
BUDGET: "3,000 – 3,900 € for 2 people" (We paid 3,200 €)
In conclusion, it’s not (yet) enough, but it’s (already) pretty impressive!
Hello everyone,
I’m sharing the menu posted at the entrance of a bar at the foot of the Porto Tower in Southern Corsica. . .
.
.
Greetings and have a great Sunday.
Puma2A . .

...
I’m sharing the menu posted at the entrance of a bar at the foot of the Porto Tower in Southern Corsica. . .
.
.Greetings and have a great Sunday.
Puma2A . .

...
I’ve kept the habit of blowing my nose in the sink and then washing my hands—a custom I picked up in India. Sometimes, non-travelers are shocked when they catch me in the act... 🤪
Also, when I run out of toilet paper, it doesn’t bother me—unless I’ve got company over... 🤪
Just got back from walking a friend’s dog (while they’re on vacation), wearing a djellaba and Tibetan boots... 😏😏😏 Oh, for sure, if I’d run into locals, I probably would’ve shocked them? 😏
Anyway, as long as I’m not spitting on the floor at a restaurant or squatting on the side of a highway with a water bottle in hand...
Do you bring back customs from your travels?
Also, when I run out of toilet paper, it doesn’t bother me—unless I’ve got company over... 🤪
Just got back from walking a friend’s dog (while they’re on vacation), wearing a djellaba and Tibetan boots... 😏😏😏 Oh, for sure, if I’d run into locals, I probably would’ve shocked them? 😏
Anyway, as long as I’m not spitting on the floor at a restaurant or squatting on the side of a highway with a water bottle in hand...
Do you bring back customs from your travels?
After taking a little trip around the world, I came back a few months ago with an idea in mind.
I mostly do diving, and I love observing animals in their natural habitat without disturbing them.
During the trip, I realized it was quite complicated to know where and when to see certain species.
For example:
where to dive with sharks or manta rays where you might get a chance to swim with whales
I even discovered thresher sharks during my trip… I didn’t even know this species existed before, even though they’re incredible to see.
We spent a ton of time searching for info all over the place, especially on social media, without ever getting a clear picture.
So I started putting all this together on my own, in the form of a map, to make it easier to visualize where to go depending on the seasons.
I recently put a first version online (it’s called Fauneya). There are probably mistakes, inconsistencies, or things to improve, and that’s partly why I’m posting here.
I’d really love to know how you all go about planning this kind of trip.
I mostly do diving, and I love observing animals in their natural habitat without disturbing them.
During the trip, I realized it was quite complicated to know where and when to see certain species.
For example:
where to dive with sharks or manta rays where you might get a chance to swim with whales
I even discovered thresher sharks during my trip… I didn’t even know this species existed before, even though they’re incredible to see.
We spent a ton of time searching for info all over the place, especially on social media, without ever getting a clear picture.
So I started putting all this together on my own, in the form of a map, to make it easier to visualize where to go depending on the seasons.
I recently put a first version online (it’s called Fauneya). There are probably mistakes, inconsistencies, or things to improve, and that’s partly why I’m posting here.
I’d really love to know how you all go about planning this kind of trip.
As part of my Master’s thesis, I’m currently conducting a public survey on a topic that concerns all of us when planning a trip: artificial intelligence and the role of human contact in travel planning.
These days, we’re using more and more digital tools to find ideas, compare options, and book trips... but is the role of human advisors still essential? At what moments? And for what types of trips?
The survey is anonymous and takes about 7 minutes.
It’s aimed at anyone who travels (or has traveled) for leisure, whether you plan everything yourself or go through an agency.
Survey link: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdkmBzW2QOE3_ZirhmdG8e2LQyaWLJxWUeyTR0LzpC8ytlufQ/viewform
Your response will be a huge help for my work and will contribute to a broader reflection on the future of the travel experience.
Thanks in advance to everyone who takes the time to participate!!
These days, we’re using more and more digital tools to find ideas, compare options, and book trips... but is the role of human advisors still essential? At what moments? And for what types of trips?
The survey is anonymous and takes about 7 minutes.
It’s aimed at anyone who travels (or has traveled) for leisure, whether you plan everything yourself or go through an agency.
Survey link: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdkmBzW2QOE3_ZirhmdG8e2LQyaWLJxWUeyTR0LzpC8ytlufQ/viewform
Your response will be a huge help for my work and will contribute to a broader reflection on the future of the travel experience.
Thanks in advance to everyone who takes the time to participate!!
While browsing the forum to gather info for my upcoming trip to Thailand, I often see the terms "traveler," "great traveler," and also "tourist"—so what’s the nuance for you?
I've traveled quite a bit in Vietnam over the past few years—from the southern delta to bustling cities and even some small islands—but what really sticks with me is the north, the high mountains.
Up there, there's something different—maybe slower, more raw. The morning markets with ethnic groups, women in traditional clothes, the colors...
The stilt houses, kids following you and laughing for no reason, the terraced rice fields—it almost feels unreal at times, so vast and quiet, yet so human and simple.
You often hear that Sapa has become too touristy, and that's partly true, especially in the center. But as soon as you move a little farther away, everything changes quickly. The landscapes open up, encounters feel more natural, and you rediscover something truly authentic.
I think it's that contrast that struck me—the difference between what you imagine before going and what you actually discover when you take the time.
And you—what memory do you hold onto from Vietnam? A particular place that touched you more than others?
Hello,
We’re finalizing the plans for our upcoming trip to China in May 2025. The second-to-last stop will be in Zhangjiajie, where we’ve planned to stay for 2 full days before heading to Shanghai.
We’re traveling solo using local transport and have arranged to stay in the city of Zhangjiajie.
We’ve seen that there’s a lot to see: Tianmen Mountain, the Grand Canyon and the glass bridge, Zhangjiajie National Park, and that the sites are quite far apart with fairly expensive entry fees. We’re thinking of dedicating one day to the national park and the Grand Canyon (glass bridge) and one day to Tianmen Mountain. But we’re not sure if this plan is realistic—any thoughts would be much appreciated!
Do you know if it’s possible to get around on our own, or is it better to go through a local agency or book a package like the one sold by TravelChinaGuide? https://www.travelchinaguide.com/package/zhangjiajie/2days-tour.htm
Thanks in advance for your advice! Alod
We’ve seen that there’s a lot to see: Tianmen Mountain, the Grand Canyon and the glass bridge, Zhangjiajie National Park, and that the sites are quite far apart with fairly expensive entry fees. We’re thinking of dedicating one day to the national park and the Grand Canyon (glass bridge) and one day to Tianmen Mountain. But we’re not sure if this plan is realistic—any thoughts would be much appreciated!
Do you know if it’s possible to get around on our own, or is it better to go through a local agency or book a package like the one sold by TravelChinaGuide? https://www.travelchinaguide.com/package/zhangjiajie/2days-tour.htm
Thanks in advance for your advice! Alod
Hello 🙂
I should be serving a warming drink to the participants in the discussion about gardens and parks that provide us with beautiful photos, I could mention the delicious buttery scent wafting from bakeries in the thread about returning to France, but my heart, its powerful pulse that nourishes my entire being, is elsewhere.
Dasht-e Lut, Yazd, Esfahan, Bam, Kerman, Qeshm, Hormuz—a melody, a prayer at the heart of desire.
A dream, an unattainable fantasy? No. Not anymore. A very serious Italian travel agency is organizing this trip for 6 people this winter. I’m signed up, I’m going, I’m living. Maybe.
"But you’re completely crazy!!!!"
I know... I know that every civilization, every society has a vital need to create scapegoats to define and justify itself, pathetically. And Iran is one of them, top of the list. I laugh or sigh, and it doesn’t bother me.
But that unchanging red, deep red and garnet, so beautiful in itself, in all the Western chancelleries repeats, whispers, shouts: don’t go, don’t go, don’t go, you’re putting yourself in danger and we can’t do anything for you. You’ll be turned into mere bargaining chips, into arguments for endless negotiations. Fear must be instilled, its power absolutely preserved, no concessions made to the enemy. The information (how many French hostages, real or fake, compared to the number of travelers?) is always lacking.
Traveling becomes a merciless confrontation between desire, the vital pulse, and anxiety, its ghosts.
Catherine
I should be serving a warming drink to the participants in the discussion about gardens and parks that provide us with beautiful photos, I could mention the delicious buttery scent wafting from bakeries in the thread about returning to France, but my heart, its powerful pulse that nourishes my entire being, is elsewhere.
Dasht-e Lut, Yazd, Esfahan, Bam, Kerman, Qeshm, Hormuz—a melody, a prayer at the heart of desire.
A dream, an unattainable fantasy? No. Not anymore. A very serious Italian travel agency is organizing this trip for 6 people this winter. I’m signed up, I’m going, I’m living. Maybe.
"But you’re completely crazy!!!!"
I know... I know that every civilization, every society has a vital need to create scapegoats to define and justify itself, pathetically. And Iran is one of them, top of the list. I laugh or sigh, and it doesn’t bother me.
But that unchanging red, deep red and garnet, so beautiful in itself, in all the Western chancelleries repeats, whispers, shouts: don’t go, don’t go, don’t go, you’re putting yourself in danger and we can’t do anything for you. You’ll be turned into mere bargaining chips, into arguments for endless negotiations. Fear must be instilled, its power absolutely preserved, no concessions made to the enemy. The information (how many French hostages, real or fake, compared to the number of travelers?) is always lacking.
Traveling becomes a merciless confrontation between desire, the vital pulse, and anxiety, its ghosts.
Catherine
Hi everyone, here’s our itinerary. Arriving on the evening of December 13th. Departing on January 7th.
Thanks in advance for your tips and valuable feedback.
Manila – 1 night Coron – 4 nights Coron to El Nido cruise – 2 nights El Nido – 4 nights Port Barton – 5 nights Flight from Puerto Princesa to Vigan Vigan – 2 nights Sagada – 2 nights Banaue – 2 nights Bagabag – 1 night Manila – 1 night I’ve only booked the flight to Manila and the Manila/Coron flight so far. Is it possible to book boat trips, accommodations, and the Puerto Princesa flight last-minute?
Thanks in advance. Florence
Manila – 1 night Coron – 4 nights Coron to El Nido cruise – 2 nights El Nido – 4 nights Port Barton – 5 nights Flight from Puerto Princesa to Vigan Vigan – 2 nights Sagada – 2 nights Banaue – 2 nights Bagabag – 1 night Manila – 1 night I’ve only booked the flight to Manila and the Manila/Coron flight so far. Is it possible to book boat trips, accommodations, and the Puerto Princesa flight last-minute?
Thanks in advance. Florence
Really disappointed with Costa Rica! Pura vida? The scam of the century!
(Costa Rica pure emptiness).
The country where animals are free and people are in cages. 3 weeks in December in this country and never again. Imagine the trailer of a movie that seems interesting, and when you go see it, you realize it’s a flop and the best moments were in the trailer. Well, that’s exactly how we felt with Costa Rica pure emptiness. My wife and I have traveled quite a bit and didn’t expect to be so wrong about a place. On the main routes, we visited: San José Alajuela Limón, Cahuita, Puerto Viejo, Manzanillo (Caribbean side) Jaco, Quepos, Manuel Antonio (Pacific side) And a few short stops in intermediate towns.
Our dissatisfaction grew gradually like this:
When we arrived at the hotel, the taxi dropped us off on a small street in front of a white metal gate with ground-floor windows barred. We looked at it skeptically, but the sign matched. He approached the gate, rang the bell, the buzzer sounded, and the door opened slightly. The hotel wasn’t bad for the price, a 10-minute walk from downtown, but with a "Fleury-Mérogis" vibe guaranteed.
So far, so good.
After showering and regaining our bearings, we headed downtown. What started to unsettle us on the way was seeing houses with bars on the ground-floor windows and even on the second floor. At first, we thought the hotel’s neighborhood wasn’t great.
Downtown San José: It’s a generic city, not very exotic, with a pedestrian street and a small mercado where you can eat local food without frills. Very few tourists—if any—which let you blend in with the locals. We had lunch and struggled to make ourselves understood because, aside from one or two shops, English wasn’t spoken. On the way back to the hotel, we took a different route, and while chatting and strolling, my wife pointed out a beautiful two-story white house completely barricaded like Fort Knox. From that moment, we started noticing the facades of houses and buildings, and wow, it was creepy—most looked like prisons, some even with barbed wire. Though put off, we told ourselves it was probably a big-city thing and the rest of the country couldn’t be like this.
So far, so good.
We relaxed at the hotel and had a drink at the bar. Night falls early, around 5:30 PM. By 7:30 PM, we headed back downtown for dinner. A bit unsettling for a capital—downtown was almost deserted, and aside from fast-food chains, very few restaurants were open, with hardly anyone on the streets. Bars with security guards out front. I won’t say we felt unsafe that night, but once it got dark, we realized the bars on the windows weren’t for nothing. First day in, and our impression was already mixed.
The next day, we explored the city and surroundings, and our feelings didn’t change.
So far, so good.
Off to Cahuita by bus—4 hours of travel. The landscapes are very green but quickly become monotonous. The road runs alongside the forest and passes through a few towns and villages, and even in the countryside, there were just as many prison-like houses. The bus dropped us off at Cahuita’s terminal station—only four of us got off. It’s a village, or rather, a small town. Cahuita is basically one straight road and a perpendicular one, and honestly, doubt started to creep in. A few restaurants that add 13% tax and 10% service charge—so 23% extra. We dropped our stuff at the hotel and went to explore. In 20 minutes, we’d seen it all. We had lunch and planned to check out the famous park. Entry is by donation—well, the "entry" is a joke. There’s a path along the forest by the sea, and that’s it.
Nothing’s going right anymore.
We thought it was a total scam, but since we hadn’t gone far, we decided to come back the next day to explore further. We returned to the hotel, relaxed, and around 8:00 PM, we went out for dinner. Only two restaurants were open, and the streets were deserted.
Creepy!
The next day, we explored the so-called park more thoroughly and really got it. A path along the forest by the sea—2 hours there and 2 hours back, where you see animals that feel like showing their faces. A total joke—"all that for this?"
The beach was full of wood debris and coconut husks. We wondered if the photos online were edited because the sea, very rough, wasn’t the azure blue we’d seen in pictures. But calling this a park is a joke—it’s like a new concept.
When we thought about the reviews online, we started to suspect that professionals with interests in the country were monitoring and countering any negative feedback that could harm their business. Too bad we didn’t check the negative reviews beforehand—we did while we were there, and it helped. We wondered if we’d become too demanding after all our travels, but no—when something’s bad, it’s bad.
Manuel Antonio’s park is even more ridiculous—there’s a short path along the sea for about 500 meters, and then nothing. You have to climb through mud and hack your way through the forest. We ended up barefoot because the mud was up to our calves. All that to see a raccoon and a few parrots flying overhead.
We didn’t expect Noah’s Ark, but we’ve seen more animals in Bali, Mexico, and Thailand while visiting temples or just walking around than in these so-called parks!
Puerto Viejo, not far from Cahuita and supposedly livelier—well, it couldn’t be worse! According to Lonely Planet, it had a Caribbean vibe and wild nights, but maybe that was a long time ago. The good reggae music playing everywhere isn’t enough.
In the evening, Puerto Viejo was a bit livelier than Cahuita, but that’s not saying much. Very few tourists—if any—no night market, just two or three shops open selling $20 T-shirts. Same vibe as San José.
No big deal—we enjoyed the beach and the sun, which was reliable. Our itinerary was supposed to include Tortuguero Park, but after talking to other travelers who’d just been, we changed our minds, knowing we’d be visiting Manuel Antonio Park on the Pacific side.
To get back to the Pacific side, you have to take the bus and go through San José again—5 hours this time—then switch bus terminals and another 4.5 hours to Quepos. A stopover town to get to Manuel Antonio’s beach and park! A town just like the others we’d seen—deserted as soon as the sun sets, and not exactly bustling during the day either. (Where are all the tourists?)
Still as many bars on the windows and that feeling of being in the wrong place.
7 km later: Manuel Antonio beach and park. The beach is very beautiful and quite large, but don’t expect turquoise blue water—the waves stir up the sand, giving the water a brownish color. Along the beach, shops and restaurants for about 300 meters, and then nothing. At night, after sunset, the town shuts down too.
Manuel Antonio Park is highly praised for its wildlife, so we were eager to see it. When you express dissatisfaction with Cahuita or Manzanillo parks, the response is always, "But you should’ve gone to Monteverde or Manuel Antonio!" No matter what you do or say, they’ll tell you, "You should’ve gone there or here."
Back to our famous park—entry was about $16, and contrary to what we’d heard, it wasn’t crowded! Guides at the entrance with spotting scopes offered their services for about $30. The park: a mix of boardwalk and dirt paths through the forest, sometimes running alongside beautiful coves and beaches. As soon as we entered, a crowd was taking photos of a deer eating leaves. A little further on, a guide with a group of five stopped. The guide raised his arm and set up his spotting scope! He showed them, about 100 meters away, a hummingbird perched on a branch. Some, looking through the scope, exclaimed, "Oh my God! Amazing! Incredible!" For a moment, we thought they’d discovered a unicorn or were in Jurassic Park and had just crossed paths with a T-Rex! The concept is comical—looking at a bird or another animal through a spotting scope because it’s too far away. Isn’t that what TV is for? For our part, we saw monkeys, ants, an armadillo, an iguana, and the backside of a sloth climbing a tree. Amazing, incredible!
We stayed a few days in Manuel Antonio to enjoy the beach, changing hotels often because prices varied wildly from one day to the next for shameful services. On top of that, they’d quote a price in dollars and convert it at their discretion—thieves!
Alajuela, a city near the airport, has a two-story mall and a local market downtown! No interest except its proximity to the airport.
What we liked:
The climate and, in hindsight, San José—the most authentic city we visited.
What we didn’t like, in addition to what we’ve already mentioned:
Costa Ricans aren’t very friendly or communicative. English is barely spoken, not even by doctors at Quepos Hospital, where my wife ended up with food poisoning (thanks, Google Translate). The widespread obesity among Costa Ricans, who eat like Americans. The insecurity. The eco-hipsters who leave their $150 lodges in minivans with guides to visit parks and other sites, then return to barricade themselves in their fortresses at nightfall (oh my God, amazing, incredible). The blue signs at the entrance of towns that accept this payment method: "We accept American Express." Parking lots that become paid just because a guy is watching your car. Prices displayed in dollars. The cost of living (hotels, restaurants, taxes). Landscapes that are too green and not flowery enough. Beaches—nothing exceptional. Pollution in cities where big American trucks rule. Sewage dumped directly into the sea. Aside from the jungle, there’s nothing to visit—no ruins, monuments, or anything worth seeing.
In short, my wife and I think the hype about this supposedly eco-friendly country is overrated. It’s just the trendy destination of the moment. There are much better, cheaper, and more authentic places. In hindsight, we keep the good memories and our beautiful photos, but if we had to do it over...
Before signing off, a little message to those who don’t like hearing opinions different from theirs: Well, some things aren’t up for debate. And to those who’d have us believe that in 3 weeks, we don’t have the right to criticize a country or express our feelings—how can you praise it in so little time? What a scam. Costa Rica is a money pit. Pura vida? Pure cosmic emptiness.
If you like spending your evenings barricaded in your cozy hotel after dark, this country is for you. For everyone else: run!
The country where animals are free and people are in cages. 3 weeks in December in this country and never again. Imagine the trailer of a movie that seems interesting, and when you go see it, you realize it’s a flop and the best moments were in the trailer. Well, that’s exactly how we felt with Costa Rica pure emptiness. My wife and I have traveled quite a bit and didn’t expect to be so wrong about a place. On the main routes, we visited: San José Alajuela Limón, Cahuita, Puerto Viejo, Manzanillo (Caribbean side) Jaco, Quepos, Manuel Antonio (Pacific side) And a few short stops in intermediate towns.
Our dissatisfaction grew gradually like this:
When we arrived at the hotel, the taxi dropped us off on a small street in front of a white metal gate with ground-floor windows barred. We looked at it skeptically, but the sign matched. He approached the gate, rang the bell, the buzzer sounded, and the door opened slightly. The hotel wasn’t bad for the price, a 10-minute walk from downtown, but with a "Fleury-Mérogis" vibe guaranteed.
So far, so good.
After showering and regaining our bearings, we headed downtown. What started to unsettle us on the way was seeing houses with bars on the ground-floor windows and even on the second floor. At first, we thought the hotel’s neighborhood wasn’t great.
Downtown San José: It’s a generic city, not very exotic, with a pedestrian street and a small mercado where you can eat local food without frills. Very few tourists—if any—which let you blend in with the locals. We had lunch and struggled to make ourselves understood because, aside from one or two shops, English wasn’t spoken. On the way back to the hotel, we took a different route, and while chatting and strolling, my wife pointed out a beautiful two-story white house completely barricaded like Fort Knox. From that moment, we started noticing the facades of houses and buildings, and wow, it was creepy—most looked like prisons, some even with barbed wire. Though put off, we told ourselves it was probably a big-city thing and the rest of the country couldn’t be like this.
So far, so good.
We relaxed at the hotel and had a drink at the bar. Night falls early, around 5:30 PM. By 7:30 PM, we headed back downtown for dinner. A bit unsettling for a capital—downtown was almost deserted, and aside from fast-food chains, very few restaurants were open, with hardly anyone on the streets. Bars with security guards out front. I won’t say we felt unsafe that night, but once it got dark, we realized the bars on the windows weren’t for nothing. First day in, and our impression was already mixed.
The next day, we explored the city and surroundings, and our feelings didn’t change.
So far, so good.
Off to Cahuita by bus—4 hours of travel. The landscapes are very green but quickly become monotonous. The road runs alongside the forest and passes through a few towns and villages, and even in the countryside, there were just as many prison-like houses. The bus dropped us off at Cahuita’s terminal station—only four of us got off. It’s a village, or rather, a small town. Cahuita is basically one straight road and a perpendicular one, and honestly, doubt started to creep in. A few restaurants that add 13% tax and 10% service charge—so 23% extra. We dropped our stuff at the hotel and went to explore. In 20 minutes, we’d seen it all. We had lunch and planned to check out the famous park. Entry is by donation—well, the "entry" is a joke. There’s a path along the forest by the sea, and that’s it.
Nothing’s going right anymore.
We thought it was a total scam, but since we hadn’t gone far, we decided to come back the next day to explore further. We returned to the hotel, relaxed, and around 8:00 PM, we went out for dinner. Only two restaurants were open, and the streets were deserted.
Creepy!
The next day, we explored the so-called park more thoroughly and really got it. A path along the forest by the sea—2 hours there and 2 hours back, where you see animals that feel like showing their faces. A total joke—"all that for this?"
The beach was full of wood debris and coconut husks. We wondered if the photos online were edited because the sea, very rough, wasn’t the azure blue we’d seen in pictures. But calling this a park is a joke—it’s like a new concept.
When we thought about the reviews online, we started to suspect that professionals with interests in the country were monitoring and countering any negative feedback that could harm their business. Too bad we didn’t check the negative reviews beforehand—we did while we were there, and it helped. We wondered if we’d become too demanding after all our travels, but no—when something’s bad, it’s bad.
Manuel Antonio’s park is even more ridiculous—there’s a short path along the sea for about 500 meters, and then nothing. You have to climb through mud and hack your way through the forest. We ended up barefoot because the mud was up to our calves. All that to see a raccoon and a few parrots flying overhead.
We didn’t expect Noah’s Ark, but we’ve seen more animals in Bali, Mexico, and Thailand while visiting temples or just walking around than in these so-called parks!
Puerto Viejo, not far from Cahuita and supposedly livelier—well, it couldn’t be worse! According to Lonely Planet, it had a Caribbean vibe and wild nights, but maybe that was a long time ago. The good reggae music playing everywhere isn’t enough.
In the evening, Puerto Viejo was a bit livelier than Cahuita, but that’s not saying much. Very few tourists—if any—no night market, just two or three shops open selling $20 T-shirts. Same vibe as San José.
No big deal—we enjoyed the beach and the sun, which was reliable. Our itinerary was supposed to include Tortuguero Park, but after talking to other travelers who’d just been, we changed our minds, knowing we’d be visiting Manuel Antonio Park on the Pacific side.
To get back to the Pacific side, you have to take the bus and go through San José again—5 hours this time—then switch bus terminals and another 4.5 hours to Quepos. A stopover town to get to Manuel Antonio’s beach and park! A town just like the others we’d seen—deserted as soon as the sun sets, and not exactly bustling during the day either. (Where are all the tourists?)
Still as many bars on the windows and that feeling of being in the wrong place.
7 km later: Manuel Antonio beach and park. The beach is very beautiful and quite large, but don’t expect turquoise blue water—the waves stir up the sand, giving the water a brownish color. Along the beach, shops and restaurants for about 300 meters, and then nothing. At night, after sunset, the town shuts down too.
Manuel Antonio Park is highly praised for its wildlife, so we were eager to see it. When you express dissatisfaction with Cahuita or Manzanillo parks, the response is always, "But you should’ve gone to Monteverde or Manuel Antonio!" No matter what you do or say, they’ll tell you, "You should’ve gone there or here."
Back to our famous park—entry was about $16, and contrary to what we’d heard, it wasn’t crowded! Guides at the entrance with spotting scopes offered their services for about $30. The park: a mix of boardwalk and dirt paths through the forest, sometimes running alongside beautiful coves and beaches. As soon as we entered, a crowd was taking photos of a deer eating leaves. A little further on, a guide with a group of five stopped. The guide raised his arm and set up his spotting scope! He showed them, about 100 meters away, a hummingbird perched on a branch. Some, looking through the scope, exclaimed, "Oh my God! Amazing! Incredible!" For a moment, we thought they’d discovered a unicorn or were in Jurassic Park and had just crossed paths with a T-Rex! The concept is comical—looking at a bird or another animal through a spotting scope because it’s too far away. Isn’t that what TV is for? For our part, we saw monkeys, ants, an armadillo, an iguana, and the backside of a sloth climbing a tree. Amazing, incredible!
We stayed a few days in Manuel Antonio to enjoy the beach, changing hotels often because prices varied wildly from one day to the next for shameful services. On top of that, they’d quote a price in dollars and convert it at their discretion—thieves!
Alajuela, a city near the airport, has a two-story mall and a local market downtown! No interest except its proximity to the airport.
What we liked:
The climate and, in hindsight, San José—the most authentic city we visited.
What we didn’t like, in addition to what we’ve already mentioned:
Costa Ricans aren’t very friendly or communicative. English is barely spoken, not even by doctors at Quepos Hospital, where my wife ended up with food poisoning (thanks, Google Translate). The widespread obesity among Costa Ricans, who eat like Americans. The insecurity. The eco-hipsters who leave their $150 lodges in minivans with guides to visit parks and other sites, then return to barricade themselves in their fortresses at nightfall (oh my God, amazing, incredible). The blue signs at the entrance of towns that accept this payment method: "We accept American Express." Parking lots that become paid just because a guy is watching your car. Prices displayed in dollars. The cost of living (hotels, restaurants, taxes). Landscapes that are too green and not flowery enough. Beaches—nothing exceptional. Pollution in cities where big American trucks rule. Sewage dumped directly into the sea. Aside from the jungle, there’s nothing to visit—no ruins, monuments, or anything worth seeing.
In short, my wife and I think the hype about this supposedly eco-friendly country is overrated. It’s just the trendy destination of the moment. There are much better, cheaper, and more authentic places. In hindsight, we keep the good memories and our beautiful photos, but if we had to do it over...
Before signing off, a little message to those who don’t like hearing opinions different from theirs: Well, some things aren’t up for debate. And to those who’d have us believe that in 3 weeks, we don’t have the right to criticize a country or express our feelings—how can you praise it in so little time? What a scam. Costa Rica is a money pit. Pura vida? Pure cosmic emptiness.
If you like spending your evenings barricaded in your cozy hotel after dark, this country is for you. For everyone else: run!
Hello,
Since the war between Russia and Ukraine, nothing is simple anymore for traveling to Belarus due to sanctions.
No more direct flights from the EU to Minsk.
Driving is a huge hassle, especially crossing through Poland at the only open border in Brest—you can wait 2, 3, or even 4 days just to get through by car.
The least painful driving option is to come via Lithuania and cross at the only open border, with a minimum wait time of 8 hours, sometimes up to 20 hours or more!!
Controls are very strict and annoying on both the Lithuanian and Belarusian sides. Avoid bringing alcohol, food, or cigarettes—everything will end up in the trash, especially when leaving Belarus for Vilnius, where the Lithuanians are tough, even with EU citizens.
The joy I once knew when visiting my wife in Minsk is sadly over—it’s now a real ordeal.
The fastest solution is to fly. My wife travels to France by taking a bus to Kaunas in Lithuania, where you can catch a flight (though not daily) to Paris Beauvais or Charleroi in Belgium with Ryanair, for example. For the return trip, it’s the same: a flight to Kaunas and then a direct bus from the airport to Minsk. The bus crossing is quicker than driving—the 250 km journey, including border checks, takes about 6 to 8 hours for buses leaving Lithuania around midnight, but controls are still strict at the border. The biggest challenge is finding flight schedules that align with the bus routes between the two countries, given the unpredictable border crossing times. Now, my wife travels via Charleroi in Belgium (near Brussels), and you can take a train to Paris. Alternatively, you can fly into Beauvais and take a bus to Paris (Porte Maillot). For those driving, note that EU insurance and assistance policies no longer work in Belarus or Russia. You’ll need to get local insurance, usually limited to third-party liability (I don’t think full coverage exists?), as well as mandatory medical insurance. This is available at the border. You now have to pay highway tolls—no more BELTOLL boxes. Instead, you pay a flat fee for the duration of your stay. Stop at the first gas station after crossing from Lithuania to fill up on fuel and cigarettes. From what I know, Lithuania bans carrying more than 60 € in cash, but there’s no limit for USD (though it’s capped at $10,000??). With a Visa card, you can now withdraw 1,000 rubles per week (about 270 €)—two months ago, it was only 500 rubles!! For now, you can still pay by card in shops and gas stations. However, major retailers like KORONA (which may be Russian-owned??) no longer accept foreign Visa cards. Unfortunately, the additional sanctions announced by the U.S. on August 5, 2025, against Russia—and possibly Belarus—aren’t promising for the future. After 20 years of visiting Belarus, I’m truly saddened to see the joy of living in this country with my wonderful wife turn into such a bleak situation, all because of human folly.
The fastest solution is to fly. My wife travels to France by taking a bus to Kaunas in Lithuania, where you can catch a flight (though not daily) to Paris Beauvais or Charleroi in Belgium with Ryanair, for example. For the return trip, it’s the same: a flight to Kaunas and then a direct bus from the airport to Minsk. The bus crossing is quicker than driving—the 250 km journey, including border checks, takes about 6 to 8 hours for buses leaving Lithuania around midnight, but controls are still strict at the border. The biggest challenge is finding flight schedules that align with the bus routes between the two countries, given the unpredictable border crossing times. Now, my wife travels via Charleroi in Belgium (near Brussels), and you can take a train to Paris. Alternatively, you can fly into Beauvais and take a bus to Paris (Porte Maillot). For those driving, note that EU insurance and assistance policies no longer work in Belarus or Russia. You’ll need to get local insurance, usually limited to third-party liability (I don’t think full coverage exists?), as well as mandatory medical insurance. This is available at the border. You now have to pay highway tolls—no more BELTOLL boxes. Instead, you pay a flat fee for the duration of your stay. Stop at the first gas station after crossing from Lithuania to fill up on fuel and cigarettes. From what I know, Lithuania bans carrying more than 60 € in cash, but there’s no limit for USD (though it’s capped at $10,000??). With a Visa card, you can now withdraw 1,000 rubles per week (about 270 €)—two months ago, it was only 500 rubles!! For now, you can still pay by card in shops and gas stations. However, major retailers like KORONA (which may be Russian-owned??) no longer accept foreign Visa cards. Unfortunately, the additional sanctions announced by the U.S. on August 5, 2025, against Russia—and possibly Belarus—aren’t promising for the future. After 20 years of visiting Belarus, I’m truly saddened to see the joy of living in this country with my wonderful wife turn into such a bleak situation, all because of human folly.
Hi everyone!
I’m putting together our travel itinerary for Veneto at the end of April. And the more I look and research potential sites to visit, the more I find!
We’ll only be there for a week—my family and I—including 3 days in Venice. So we have to make some choices...
I plan to rent a car when we arrive in Venice and head straight to Bergamo, which would be our first stop. We’d leave the car at the airport when we return to Venice so we can explore the city at our leisure.
What do you think: 1 night in Bergamo (a 2h15 drive from Venice airport), 1 night in Garda, 1 night in Verona, 1 in Padua, and 3 in Venice—would that be doable?
Thanks in advance for your tips and experiences! :)
What do you think: 1 night in Bergamo (a 2h15 drive from Venice airport), 1 night in Garda, 1 night in Verona, 1 in Padua, and 3 in Venice—would that be doable?
Thanks in advance for your tips and experiences! :)
Now that the curtain has fallen on the past year, it’s time to see what’s happening around here.
It seems pretty quiet, but I’ll read more in detail later.
First, I need to tell you all an anecdote.
My eldest little girl, in her third year of law school, was really scared she wouldn’t pass the year. I told her: “Trust yourself, you’ve worked so hard, and worst case, if you fail, you’ll just redo the year.” “But I don’t think I’ll make it—they changed the rules, and if I mess up even one unit, I have to start all over.” I knew her grades weren’t exactly stellar, and with what I was about to say, I wasn’t taking much of a risk. “Here’s the deal, sweetheart: if you pass, I promise I’ll take you to India, just the two of us.” I have to admit, India is a country I’ve talked about so much to all my grandchildren that in their minds, it’s become a magical, mythical place (hmm).
July had barely begun when my phone rang, her name flashing on the screen. “Mamido, I did it!” My promise came rushing back—oh no, oh no, oh no! “Congratulations, sweetheart!” A little shyly, she said: “Is the India trip still on?”
And me, replying: “Of course it is!”
And that’s that—a promise is a promise, or you risk losing that precious trust that keeps hearts warm and at peace.
We’re leaving in February. Only 8 days—yikes, the carbon footprint! But we can’t miss her tutorials, or she’ll be kicked out. Personally, that works just fine for me.
Going to India has become a challenge for me. It’s far, it’s exhausting, I sweat, I hate mosquitoes, the spices bother my mouth when I used to love them. There’s noise all the time—at night, the dogs bark nonstop, and we almost get run over. I’ll get lost in the streets because my sense of direction has vanished. I don’t like rice anymore. All that chaos and those cultural differences that once enchanted me now just overwhelm me. But I promised.
The upside—and it’s a big one—Raman, the same driver I’ve had forever, will be at the airport with a sign with our names. We’ll stop at the same little shop for chai (or tea, plain and simple) with that aroma that intoxicates me, halfway through the trip.
It’ll be a tiny trip—staying with friends, I’ll show her a few places I love: Chidambaram, Mamallapuram, and the clinic where I worked. Then we’ll head back. My little girl will go home to her parents.
As for me, I’ll leave right away for our Scottish island with Homme for our chilly winter.
How can you love a country so much you want to live there, then suddenly reject it, no longer able to appreciate what once made it special? That’s the mystery of love, I guess.
First, I need to tell you all an anecdote.
My eldest little girl, in her third year of law school, was really scared she wouldn’t pass the year. I told her: “Trust yourself, you’ve worked so hard, and worst case, if you fail, you’ll just redo the year.” “But I don’t think I’ll make it—they changed the rules, and if I mess up even one unit, I have to start all over.” I knew her grades weren’t exactly stellar, and with what I was about to say, I wasn’t taking much of a risk. “Here’s the deal, sweetheart: if you pass, I promise I’ll take you to India, just the two of us.” I have to admit, India is a country I’ve talked about so much to all my grandchildren that in their minds, it’s become a magical, mythical place (hmm).
July had barely begun when my phone rang, her name flashing on the screen. “Mamido, I did it!” My promise came rushing back—oh no, oh no, oh no! “Congratulations, sweetheart!” A little shyly, she said: “Is the India trip still on?”
And me, replying: “Of course it is!”
And that’s that—a promise is a promise, or you risk losing that precious trust that keeps hearts warm and at peace.
We’re leaving in February. Only 8 days—yikes, the carbon footprint! But we can’t miss her tutorials, or she’ll be kicked out. Personally, that works just fine for me.
Going to India has become a challenge for me. It’s far, it’s exhausting, I sweat, I hate mosquitoes, the spices bother my mouth when I used to love them. There’s noise all the time—at night, the dogs bark nonstop, and we almost get run over. I’ll get lost in the streets because my sense of direction has vanished. I don’t like rice anymore. All that chaos and those cultural differences that once enchanted me now just overwhelm me. But I promised.
The upside—and it’s a big one—Raman, the same driver I’ve had forever, will be at the airport with a sign with our names. We’ll stop at the same little shop for chai (or tea, plain and simple) with that aroma that intoxicates me, halfway through the trip.
It’ll be a tiny trip—staying with friends, I’ll show her a few places I love: Chidambaram, Mamallapuram, and the clinic where I worked. Then we’ll head back. My little girl will go home to her parents.
As for me, I’ll leave right away for our Scottish island with Homme for our chilly winter.
How can you love a country so much you want to live there, then suddenly reject it, no longer able to appreciate what once made it special? That’s the mystery of love, I guess.
I’ve visited the U.S. four times myself, including two long road trips. The last one was just this past August...
I won’t be going back. I already felt guilty last August, but recent policies have finally convinced me: the humiliation of Zelensky, authoritarian excesses, Gestapo-like methods for detaining people of foreign origin, the murder of innocent people (a mother shot dead), corruption, insane "tariffs," skyrocketing healthcare costs for Americans, the abduction of foreign figures to secure oil, the requirement to disclose social media accounts, and now... threats and blackmail to forcibly take Greenland—a region that belongs to Denmark and thus the European Union!
The reality is that simply posting this could get me denied entry to the U.S.!
In this context, I just can’t keep spending money there. I loved my trips, but there are so many other countries with stunning landscapes to explore.
So I get why you’d want to travel there. I did, and I loved it. But once a country no longer respects any of the values that made us love it, why go?
How can we even consider traveling to a country that threatens to take one of our territories by force?
I won’t be going back. I already felt guilty last August, but recent policies have finally convinced me: the humiliation of Zelensky, authoritarian excesses, Gestapo-like methods for detaining people of foreign origin, the murder of innocent people (a mother shot dead), corruption, insane "tariffs," skyrocketing healthcare costs for Americans, the abduction of foreign figures to secure oil, the requirement to disclose social media accounts, and now... threats and blackmail to forcibly take Greenland—a region that belongs to Denmark and thus the European Union!
The reality is that simply posting this could get me denied entry to the U.S.!
In this context, I just can’t keep spending money there. I loved my trips, but there are so many other countries with stunning landscapes to explore.
So I get why you’d want to travel there. I did, and I loved it. But once a country no longer respects any of the values that made us love it, why go?
How can we even consider traveling to a country that threatens to take one of our territories by force?
Hi there,
While reading some travel journals, I notice that we always reflect on the people of the countries we visit.
I’d love to hear your thoughts on which people charmed you the most during your travels?
I’m not looking for controversy, just reflections and personal feelings. Looking forward to reading your replies...
While reading some travel journals, I notice that we always reflect on the people of the countries we visit.
I’d love to hear your thoughts on which people charmed you the most during your travels?
I’m not looking for controversy, just reflections and personal feelings. Looking forward to reading your replies...
Hello everyone,
Controversial topic? Not necessarily—maybe just a reflection on a world to come.
I spent the last 15 days of August on a cruise in Greenland, from Kangerlussuaq to Tasiilaq.
I was utterly amazed by this unique world of rock and ice, the little houses in every color, a simple life that’s also complicated by isolation and climate, among other things...
I carry in my heart the kindness of the people I met, the raw and gentle majesty of the icebergs, the colors of the sky...
So, I can’t even imagine a massive presence of raw material prospectors, heavy machinery requiring roads to be built—if that’s even possible—changing their way of life... putting sled dogs out to pasture!
Do fast food and Greenland’s northern lights really mix?
I wouldn’t trade my memories for an ESTA!
All opinions are respectable, which is why this isn’t a controversy—but I’m sorry, I have a soft spot for *my* Greenland.
Best regards,
So, I can’t even imagine a massive presence of raw material prospectors, heavy machinery requiring roads to be built—if that’s even possible—changing their way of life... putting sled dogs out to pasture!
Do fast food and Greenland’s northern lights really mix?
I wouldn’t trade my memories for an ESTA!
All opinions are respectable, which is why this isn’t a controversy—but I’m sorry, I have a soft spot for *my* Greenland.
Best regards,

Hello to all East Africa lovers and nature enthusiasts in general,
While I prepare to share a recap of our latest trip/safari in Kenya soon, I’d like to wish you all a peaceful transition between 2025 and 2026.
Warm regards,
Puma2A.





...
We’re a couple aged 58 and 63. We’ve just returned from a wonderful trip to South India in Tamil Nadu and a few days in Kerala. We traveled with a local French-speaking guide and his friend, the driver. They both live in Pondicherry. We spent 3 weeks with them in the most authentic way!
We covered just over 2,500 km and visited not only temples but also archaeological sites, museums, and small artisanal businesses making tiles, tea, sculptures, bronze, and silk spinning. We were lucky enough to visit a public school, attend a wedding, and even a death announcement in a small countryside village. We were fully immersed in the culture, food, noise, and colors—it was incredible!
The hotels and guesthouses we chose were very clean and mostly quiet. We’re returning from India with amazing discoveries!
We’re happy to share more info if you’d like! M-Claire and Jean
We covered just over 2,500 km and visited not only temples but also archaeological sites, museums, and small artisanal businesses making tiles, tea, sculptures, bronze, and silk spinning. We were lucky enough to visit a public school, attend a wedding, and even a death announcement in a small countryside village. We were fully immersed in the culture, food, noise, and colors—it was incredible!
The hotels and guesthouses we chose were very clean and mostly quiet. We’re returning from India with amazing discoveries!
We’re happy to share more info if you’d like! M-Claire and Jean
This catchy and somewhat mysterious title comes from several questions I’ve been asking myself.
VF has been back open for a reasonable number of weeks and months now. The number of visitors overall matches past averages, but the number of members online in the last 24 hours seems relatively lower than what we used to see.
Yet, to my surprise, I’m seeing fewer travel journals, way fewer messages, and way fewer questions. I don’t see many new registered users online, and I notice a number of members who are logged in but either aren’t participating or have stopped participating.
Something’s not adding up for me because, in my opinion, VF is still appealing, and I don’t see which other sites could really compete.
Was there a real break between pre- and post-Covid? Does it just take more time for some people to discover the site or learn that it’s active again? Do people now prefer quick consumption on sites like FB or others I’m not familiar with? Where have the site’s old-timers gone, and what are they doing with their time now? What’s really going on here?
VF has been back open for a reasonable number of weeks and months now. The number of visitors overall matches past averages, but the number of members online in the last 24 hours seems relatively lower than what we used to see.
Yet, to my surprise, I’m seeing fewer travel journals, way fewer messages, and way fewer questions. I don’t see many new registered users online, and I notice a number of members who are logged in but either aren’t participating or have stopped participating.
Something’s not adding up for me because, in my opinion, VF is still appealing, and I don’t see which other sites could really compete.
Was there a real break between pre- and post-Covid? Does it just take more time for some people to discover the site or learn that it’s active again? Do people now prefer quick consumption on sites like FB or others I’m not familiar with? Where have the site’s old-timers gone, and what are they doing with their time now? What’s really going on here?
Hi there,
This isn’t exactly a traveler’s question... I’d like to know who handles the technical side of this forum?
I run a similar forum on a different topic (unrecognized children), and we’re dealing with a few technical issues that are slowly killing our forum... so I’d have one or two questions to ask 😊.
Also, I was wondering who created this forum... who the administrators or moderators are, etc.
I think this forum is great. Much better than Facebook, which I’ve been using since it shut down (so I’m happy to see it’s working again...)
This isn’t exactly a traveler’s question... I’d like to know who handles the technical side of this forum?
I run a similar forum on a different topic (unrecognized children), and we’re dealing with a few technical issues that are slowly killing our forum... so I’d have one or two questions to ask 😊.
Also, I was wondering who created this forum... who the administrators or moderators are, etc.
I think this forum is great. Much better than Facebook, which I’ve been using since it shut down (so I’m happy to see it’s working again...)