Petting a lion in South Africa?
FR

Translated into English.

RO Rouquine38 Globetrotter ·
No, no, I’m not stalking you... it’s the lions I’m after 😏
"Voyager est un triple plaisir : l'attente, l'éblouissement et le souvenir." Ilka Chase
MI Michel85200 Globetrotter ·
Except when I only went to the Western Cape... I’ve seen them every year... except in Kgalagadi... even though it’s known for its lion population!

Heard the lion, saw the tracks, saw the tracks again just two steps from our accommodation, missed the lion drinking at the waterhole... which passes right next to our second accommodation...

The Kgalagadi curse!
michel85200
RO Rouquine38 Globetrotter ·
Oh, cool! So I still have hope of seeing one someday 😄. In two trips, not a single one in my lens 😢, but it gives us a great excuse to go back to South Africa 😊.
"Voyager est un triple plaisir : l'attente, l'éblouissement et le souvenir." Ilka Chase
MA Marati Globetrotter ·
Lions in Namibia count too, so you shouldn’t stay empty-handed for much longer. At worst, I’ll post some more photos in 2 weeks. 😛 2 days to go before heading to Lesotho. Bright sunshine, almost no morning frosts expected, and hopefully no wind on Sunday for the chain hike... 😇 Clementines already booked in Clarens... Pure bliss!!
RO Rouquine38 Globetrotter ·
Lions in Namibia count too, so you shouldn’t stay empty-handed for much longer.

No, they don’t count... We want to see them in South Africa because otherwise, there are those that pose all day for visitors 😏.



At worst, I’ll post some more photos in two weeks. 😛

Yeah, right, rub it in...

D-2 before departure for Lesotho. Bright sunshine, almost no morning frosts expected, and normally no wind on Sunday for the chain hike... 😇 The Clementines already booked in Clarens... Pure bliss!!

Cool! Plus, if the weather’s on your side, where else are you headed? But I think you’ve got a sleeping bag after your winter trip to the US—time to make the most of it now 😉. Wishing you an amazing holiday and can’t wait to hear all about it when you’re back 😎.
"Voyager est un triple plaisir : l'attente, l'éblouissement et le souvenir." Ilka Chase
MA Marati Globetrotter ·
Thanks Isabelle. It’s still easier to have good weather when you bring your wife along...

But I think you packed a sleeping bag after your winter trip to the USA—gotta make the most of them now 😉

We’re not planning to camp. However, next year in Namibia, we’ll be doing almost nothing but that, and our sleeping bags will finally come in handy...
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
Have a great trip! 🙂
MA Marati Globetrotter ·
Thanks Agnès. We’re all as excited as kids on Christmas Eve... 😏
MU Muriel18 Globetrotter ·
Safe travels, Guillaume... and a beautiful travel journal (full of lions ;)) when you get back. Muriel
Si tu diffères de moi, mon frère, loin de me léser, tu m'enrichis (Saint Exupéry)
MI Michelera ·
Hi there,

Thanks for this really informative post! It’s clear that people need to understand wild animals aren’t meant to be petted—they’re meant to stay wild... A lion cub isn’t a house cat.
OB Obeoandpai Globetrotter ·
Hello, Thanks for this very informative post! It’s clear that people absolutely need to understand that wild animals aren’t meant to be petted but to remain wild... A lion cub is not a cat.

Hi Michèle, Absolutely, A great watch for families who are passionate (and those who aren’t) A beautiful illustration, despite a few weaknesses in the narration:

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mia_et_le_Lion_blanc

The director Gilles de Maistre worked with zoologist Kevin Richardson to film a teenager with a big cat over three years, from birth to adulthood. In her relationship with this young girl, who is the film’s actress, the safety and power of the image come from the fact that the relationship is real in real life..... What the film denounces is the exploitation of animals, the hunting of wild animals for money, and the destruction of nature. Many documentaries do this, but they’re aimed at a more limited audience....

https://youtu.be/g9zPEy2KaPQ
Mon YouTube https://www.youtube.com/user/voyageurasie/videos?view_as=subscriber
DJ Djalma Globetrotter ·
A lion cub is not a cat.

Before being domesticated, the cat was wild... just like the wolf was before becoming a dog. The same goes for cattle, horses, and all farm animals and poultry. So why not lions or cheetahs too?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XCOyB7WStI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2eI67iCbKY
MI Michelera ·
But why do you want to domesticate them? I think it’s better not to make these animals dependent on humans! Isn’t it more beautiful to imagine (or see) them in their natural environment, in a pack, hunting on their own?
DJ Djalma Globetrotter ·
But why do you want to domesticate them? I think it’s better not to make these animals dependent on humans!

Oh, but I don’t want anything at all. I’m just stating a fact: wild animals have been domesticated by humans. Cats, wolves, horses, cattle, sheep, poultry, wild boars, some birds of prey, and others I’m forgetting—so maybe before they disappear completely from the planet, which I feel is very close for cheetahs, for example, and later lions, rhinos, etc., it’ll become a necessity...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XCOyB7WStI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2eI67iCbKY
JO Jojoone1 Globetrotter ·
But why do you want to domesticate them? I think it’s better not to make these animals dependent on humans!

Oh, but I don’t want anything at all. I’m just stating a fact: Wild animals have been domesticated by humans. Cats, wolves, horses, cattle, sheep, poultry, wild boars, some birds of prey, and others I’m forgetting—so maybe before their total disappearance from the planet, which I feel is very near, cheetahs, for example, and later lions, rhinos, etc., it’ll become a necessity...

Who knows. Besides, taking advantage of the temporary absence of some fierce participants, can’t we acknowledge another fact: It might be easier to pet a lion in Africa than to pet an African in Lyon. You’ll probably come up with an appropriate response, while in the meantime, I’ll have bolted into the savanna, tail between my legs, obviously.
« Tout le monde s'interroge sur comment laisser une meilleure planète à nos enfants, mais on devrait plutôt penser à laisser de meilleurs enfants pour notre planète. » Clint Eastwood
MI Michel85200 Globetrotter ·
Neither the wolf nor the wild boar were domesticated. If the rhinoceros had been domesticable, Hannibal would have come with them. That same Hannibal only had a few elephants at his disposal, from an extinct species very different from the classic African elephant. One of the peculiarities of Africa and the Americas is that there are virtually no domesticable species: Not the buffalo, Not the zebra, No animal providing traction power. Same in South America. They knew about the wheel but had nothing to pull a cart. And since they missed out on the wheelbarrow... A little Sunday reading: Jared Diamond
michel85200
XY Xyz999 Veteran ·
Neither the wolf nor the boar were domesticated

Dogs, pigs.
MI Michel85200 Globetrotter ·
Wolves aren’t dogs Boars aren’t pigs And vice versa
michel85200
XY Xyz999 Veteran ·
Oh, okay. I didn't know.
MU Muriel18 Globetrotter ·
Wild animals have been domesticated by humans.

Originally for pragmatic reasons for humans. Wolves and wild cats also gained something from it. When it comes to cattle, sheep, etc., they didn’t gain anything, but humans (the population as a whole) did. But what’s the point of domesticating lions or cheetahs? Letting people pet them when they’re cubs and then offering them to wealthy hunters when they become too much of a handful? That only benefits a tiny minority, not a large part of the population... And then we’re surprised there are too many herbivores and small carnivores because they no longer have predators... Muriel
Si tu diffères de moi, mon frère, loin de me léser, tu m'enrichis (Saint Exupéry)
MI Michel85200 Globetrotter ·
A wild animal can be tamed Humans create a domestic animal through selective breeding From this tamed animal Dogs are therefore the creation of a new animal It’s true this might seem like nitpicking But in previous posts, the question came up (should we revisit it?) about domesticating lions Which in itself is either utopian You’d have to tame it first, then create a domestic version A wild animal remains a wild animal Cheetahs are more tamable But even the Egyptians gave up on creating a domestic version Anyway You don’t pet a lion You leave it in the bush, where we hope it can stay for a long time
michel85200
DJ Djalma Globetrotter ·
But what's the point of domesticating lions or cheetahs? Letting people pet them when they're cubs and then offering them to wealthy hunters when they become too much of a handful? It only concerns a tiny minority, not a large part of the population...

As I mentioned, the cheetah is endangered—or at least, that’s what I’ve read—but maybe we’ll manage to save it?... Otherwise, the only other option is domestication, or rather the "zoological park" where people come to pet them... Not me, though—I don’t see any appeal in it, whether it’s paid or free. I was actually a bit surprised reading this post that so many people could be interested! Yet, that’s clearly the case, because if it were only a tiny minority, no one would bother breeding them, just like with lion or elephant hunting in private "reserves."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XCOyB7WStI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2eI67iCbKY
DJ Djalma Globetrotter ·
Neither the wolf nor the wild boar were ever domesticated

Is this new?

Until recently, it was simply impossible to determine the origin of dogs. Then molecular biology settled the question: dogs are descended from wolves and wolves alone, and La Fontaine’s lovely phrase turned out to be prophetic!

www.pourlascience.fr/...ion-du-loup-7099.php
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XCOyB7WStI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2eI67iCbKY
MI Michel85200 Globetrotter ·
descending from the lopu, not a wolf. you re-read and you'll understand
michel85200
XY Xyz999 Veteran ·
What I understand from your reasoning is that once an animal is domesticated, it’s no longer a wild animal, so a wild animal can’t be domesticated... weird.

Otherwise, I wonder if a man who goes to McDonald’s is still a *Homo sapiens sapiens*, or if he’s also undergone some kind of "domestication." And if it was inevitable that other mammals would be dragged into the same transformation to survive ecological upheavals?
JO Jojoone1 Globetrotter ·
One thing’s for sure—people who eat at McDonald’s often go through quite the transformation!
« Tout le monde s'interroge sur comment laisser une meilleure planète à nos enfants, mais on devrait plutôt penser à laisser de meilleurs enfants pour notre planète. » Clint Eastwood
MA Marati Globetrotter ·
once domesticated, an animal is no longer a wild animal, so a wild animal is not domesticable.... weird

There’s no cause-and-effect link in your sentence. I agree with the first part, but your conclusion seems "weird" to me.

What I understood from Michel’s point is that dogs are the domesticated version of wolves, but the two species are quite distinct. And this is scientifically confirmed—when a wolf is captured in France, genetic analyses are always carried out to determine its strain (Spanish, Italian, or Romanian) or even if it’s a hybrid (crossed with a domestic dog) from the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd generation. Even though dogs and wolves are genetically close enough to mate, their differences are significant enough to distinguish them clearly. The same goes for wild boars and pigs.
XY Xyz999 Veteran ·
I agree with the first part of your sentence, but your conclusion seems "weird" to me.

That’s how I understand Michel’s reasoning.
MI Michel85200 Globetrotter ·
And the two winners of the contest are...
michel85200
DJ Djalma Globetrotter ·
One of the peculiarities of Africa and the Americas is that there are virtually no domesticable species. No buffalo. No zebra. No animal providing traction power. Same in South America.

Where did you get this information? For example, you can find domesticated llamas in the Andes, and they strangely resemble the wild guanacos that were domesticated in the past... even if they are now, as you mentioned earlier about other animals, two different species. Just like wild horses and domestic horses (are they genetically different, by the way?). Similarly, from the wild cheetah, we could have a domesticated species in the future. The Egyptians abandoned the project, sure, but future lovers of this feline who regularly visit reserves to pet them will probably succeed one day... In my opinion, when you start wanting to pet a wild animal—even if it’s a strange idea (to me)—it’s somehow the beginning of the domestication process rearing its head...

But in previous posts, the topic (should we revisit it?) was about domesticating lions. Which in itself is either utopian

Today’s utopia could very well be tomorrow’s reality, sooner or later...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XCOyB7WStI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2eI67iCbKY
MI Michel85200 Globetrotter ·
To wrap up

There was a native species of "horse" in the Americas that had disappeared long before the Spanish arrived. The horses of the Native Americans in our iconography... therefore come from stolen horses and those that escaped into the wild.

Try plowing a field with a llama! The other "domesticated" animal is the guinea pig... same goes for plowing a field...
michel85200
DJ Djalma Globetrotter ·
Go plow a field with a llama then!

Uh... domesticated llamas aren’t really used for plowing... Neither are dogs, for that matter. Not sure where you’re going with this. When it comes to horse domestication, I was talking about the general case (Eurasian) and not specifically the horses of the Americas. Humans use domesticated horses for plowing, but that’s not all they’re good for ;)😏
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XCOyB7WStI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2eI67iCbKY
JO Jojoone1 Globetrotter ·
Just passing by, what’s the point of trying to domesticate certain animals that, by their very nature, wouldn’t be what they are anymore? After tens of thousands of years, we haven’t even managed to tame humans yet!
« Tout le monde s'interroge sur comment laisser une meilleure planète à nos enfants, mais on devrait plutôt penser à laisser de meilleurs enfants pour notre planète. » Clint Eastwood
DJ Djalma Globetrotter ·
Just passing by, but what’s the point of trying to domesticate animals that, by nature, wouldn’t be what they are anymore?

I dunno... I don’t have a cat, dog, or horse, and I don’t really care what they were like before. I occasionally pet my neighbor’s cat, but I have zero desire to do that with a lion, leopard, or any other savanna animal😏
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XCOyB7WStI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2eI67iCbKY
JO Jojoone1 Globetrotter ·
Which means you're less afraid of cougars than lions. And yet. 😎
« Tout le monde s'interroge sur comment laisser une meilleure planète à nos enfants, mais on devrait plutôt penser à laisser de meilleurs enfants pour notre planète. » Clint Eastwood
DI Diamina Globetrotter ·
Hey Joel,

Animals would be happier without us—except for my cat, who’s convinced I’m his dad.

Jojo-esque humor is always delicious!!!

Also, taking advantage of the temporary absence of a few fierce participants, can’t we acknowledge another fact: it’d be almost easier to pet a lion in Africa than to pet an African in Lyon. You’ll probably come up with a fitting response while I’ve already bolted into the savanna, tail between my legs, of course.

What am I saying???? This is pure genius!!! 😏😄 The more I try to picture the scene, the more I’m dying of laughter!!!!! Thanks!
Nord Chili, NOA, Sud Lipez, La Paz août 2012 https://voyageforum.com/forum/mois_dans_andes_peripeties_en_altitude_D5526293/ Apologie du southwest en hiver https://voyageforum.com/forum/apologie_sud-ouest_etats-unis_en_hiver_D5851267/ Impressions d'Afrique et de Namibie
DI Diamina Globetrotter ·
Hey Michel,

Go plow a field with a llama then!

I don’t know about plowing, but it’s way easier to get spat on by a llama, though!!! 🤪
Nord Chili, NOA, Sud Lipez, La Paz août 2012 https://voyageforum.com/forum/mois_dans_andes_peripeties_en_altitude_D5526293/ Apologie du southwest en hiver https://voyageforum.com/forum/apologie_sud-ouest_etats-unis_en_hiver_D5851267/ Impressions d'Afrique et de Namibie
JO Jojoone1 Globetrotter ·
And yet it runs, it runs, the love llama...😇
« Tout le monde s'interroge sur comment laisser une meilleure planète à nos enfants, mais on devrait plutôt penser à laisser de meilleurs enfants pour notre planète. » Clint Eastwood
DI Diamina Globetrotter ·
Hey there,

And yet it runs, it runs, the llama of love says...

Joël, you're unbeatable!!! 😏😄 Would love sickness be competing with the ferret then?
Nord Chili, NOA, Sud Lipez, La Paz août 2012 https://voyageforum.com/forum/mois_dans_andes_peripeties_en_altitude_D5526293/ Apologie du southwest en hiver https://voyageforum.com/forum/apologie_sud-ouest_etats-unis_en_hiver_D5851267/ Impressions d'Afrique et de Namibie
JO Jojoone1 Globetrotter ·
Anyway, we’d better be careful 😉
« Tout le monde s'interroge sur comment laisser une meilleure planète à nos enfants, mais on devrait plutôt penser à laisser de meilleurs enfants pour notre planète. » Clint Eastwood
DI Diamina Globetrotter ·
Anyway, we’d better be careful 😉

Oh, that’s for sure!!! 😏 Especially with spit-happy llamas and thieving baboons!!!
Nord Chili, NOA, Sud Lipez, La Paz août 2012 https://voyageforum.com/forum/mois_dans_andes_peripeties_en_altitude_D5526293/ Apologie du southwest en hiver https://voyageforum.com/forum/apologie_sud-ouest_etats-unis_en_hiver_D5851267/ Impressions d'Afrique et de Namibie
ZE Zezettedez Regular ·
unfortunately, some animals will only be seen in zoos anymore you can’t just domesticate them to save them—there’s a limit. A rhino at home isn’t exactly practical
DJ Djalma Globetrotter ·
Way worse than petting lions! Countless animals won’t be visible anywhere—not even in zoos! www.orthoacademie.com/...de-la-deforestation/

www.franceculture.fr/...tion-12-500-menacees

A question: Why would it be more important to protect lions, cheetahs, or rhinos than the rusty-patched bumblebee?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XCOyB7WStI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2eI67iCbKY
SI Simc4 Veteran ·
Hi Jean Michel,

A question: Why would it be more important to protect the lion, the cheetah, or the rhinoceros than the red-tailed bumblebee?

Asking the question is answering it. Of course, there’s no hierarchy in protecting all species.... I’m not a scientist, but like you, I read articles that warn us about all these disappearances... And on the other hand, I realize that traveling, seeing (not petting in my case) animals in their (more or less) natural environment, being around this beauty, makes me think more about biodiversity and become more sensitive to it.... And as a result, I adapt some of my behaviors. Michel’s question drew attention to the "harmful effects" of this practice on lions in this case. While this practice isn’t responsible, I think, for the gradual extinction of this species. I like to believe (naively?) that everyone on this forum who’s lucky enough to travel (of their own free will 😉) fights in one way or another for the protection of all the inhabitants of our beautiful planet.
MO Montagnard74 Globetrotter ·
Because the winter blues really get me down... 😛
"Le véritable voyage de découverte ne consiste pas à chercher de nouveaux paysages, mais à avoir de nouveaux yeux." Marcel Proust
AT Atila Globetrotter ·
Nice! !
DJ Djalma Globetrotter ·
Of course, no hierarchy in protecting all species.... I’m not a scientist, but like you, I read articles that warn us about all these disappearances... And on the other hand, I realize that traveling, seeing (not petting in my case) animals in their (more or less) natural environment, being around this beauty, makes me question biodiversity more and become more sensitive to it.... And based on that, adjusting some of my behaviors. Michel’s question drew attention to the "harmful effects" of this practice on lions in this case. While I don’t think this practice is responsible for the gradual extinction of this species.

Your answer, which I believe is sincere, suits me perfectly.

I dare to believe (naively?) that everyone on this forum who has the chance to travel (of their own free will 😉) fights in one way or another for the protection of all inhabitants of our beautiful planet.

On the other hand, I struggle to accept that, and I think their primary motivations are entirely different. In my opinion, very few of them actually try to adapt their behaviors to the existing ecological situation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XCOyB7WStI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2eI67iCbKY
DJ Djalma Globetrotter ·
Because bumblebees make me sad...

And on top of that, they don’t make for great photos!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XCOyB7WStI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2eI67iCbKY
MI Michel85200 Globetrotter ·
Saw this on France 2 this week, during their midday news.

A series of reports on the Big Five.

And lions. This Tuesday, they highlighted the dark side of all those places where naive tourists pet lion cubs and can walk with older ones (always "rescued" "meant to be released into the wild," etc., etc.)... Only for their bones to end up as powder for "ancestral remedies." And their bodies riddled with bullets from "hunters"...

Come on... we don’t pet lion cubs! We don’t walk with lions! We don’t listen to all that nonsense!
michel85200
MI Michel85200 Globetrotter ·
Hi

Just a quick reminder for anyone heading to SA...
michel85200

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