So where are they and what are they doing?
FR

Translated into English.

AT Attila Globetrotter ·
You see things through your own Western filter.

You see things through your own Western filter in search of yourself.

Freedom may be conceived differently in those countries.

Oh really? And what about Iran? The Arab Spring? All those men and women who fled Afghanistan?

And Pakistanis don’t want the Western way of life

Did you ask *all* Pakistanis for their opinion?

Why are there protests, murders, repression if everything is so rosy?

A little reading:

Amnesty International RSF
Ponts du monde : concours de photos amical de juillet 2026 Rubrique Jeux Voyages C'est le moment de poster vos meilleurs clichés !
UN UnaMilanese Veteran ·
Good evening,

Religion [...] to maintain its cohesion

Yet that’s its primary function—to create a sense of belonging to a group governed by defined and identifiable rules. Much like those absurdities called nations, with a few sizeable nuances, of course. Because the alternative, unless you fall under the third major contemporary pole (the hypnotized frenzied consumers), isn’t really the freedom Agnès refers to—it’s loneliness. And its fragility. I can see how that might be dizzying.

Alright! This isn’t the kind of conversation for 5-line messages! It’s too heavy, and I need to take care of my Greek ferries, light and stony lands, original language.

Take care 🙂

Cat
By this, and this only, we have existed. Which is not to be found in our obituaries. (T.S. Eliot)
MI MirandaMouse Globetrotter ·
I’ve also noticed among the people around me that those who TRULY have faith (not just religion out of habit or upbringing) seem happier.

That said, we can’t force ourselves to have faith—it’s not something you can just decide to have.

On the other hand, I do think there’s a growing sense of deep loneliness these days.
http://www.lasourisglobe-trotteuse.fr/

Des milliers de photos et plein de conseils d'une souris pour voyager low-cost en Europe et hors des sentiers battus
MA Mathews Globetrotter ·
You see things through your own Western filter of self-discovery.

? Not at all. What I wrote wasn’t understood. I was talking about traditional societies. It’s obvious that when you stay in three-star hotels, you don’t see what makes up the common people 😉 My first trip to Peru, I was in Cabañaconde—the person hosting me was a very poor farmer from the Altiplano, and the place where he lived was in deplorable conditions. And I’ve been to plenty of places like that, I’d say. And when travelers are on the road, they don’t see behind the scenes. Of course, in a three-star hotel, the rooms are clean, there’s a spa, all-you-can-eat breakfast, the staff is attentive... Which is what most people on this forum do 😉

Oh really? And what about Iran? The Arab Spring? All those men and women who fled Afghanistan?

Is life better in the West? Since society is so individualistic, what do we really have in the end? People overconsuming tranquilizers and medications, homeless people under the influence of fentanyl in the streets of San Francisco or Los Angeles. Traditional societies have kept their family foundations.
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
Good evening Agnès, Okay, just a reply without going into too much detail...

They are mostly free. What a terrible misfortune it is to be free...

Free? The freedom we were told in 2020 wasn’t the norm or a right, but a temporary situation, preferably in line with collective standards? Who still doesn’t get it? 🤪 Young French people are among the least free in Europe, and it’s not because of too much religion.

Apparently not in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, etc. The Iranians seem partly ready.

What’s terrible, reading you, is that you’re justifying a radical stance, an ideological rejection of identities and beliefs by once again bringing up Afghanistan. If the Taliban’s country is really the only counterexample you have to support your point, I find that a bit weak. Syria? Did you visit Assad’s Syria in its heyday, on the ruins of Hama crushed multiple times in the name of Ba'athism? Iran? Are you really sure you’re not clouded by a press that wants to show you Iranians as something they’re hardly at all? It’ll be complicated to discuss all this—you have an ideological axis, and ironically, a rather religious one in its own way. And we can only fear the woman of one book.

Michel
AT Attila Globetrotter ·
As they say, you don’t have a monopoly on heart...

Traditional societies have kept their family foundations.

Where hypocrisy reigns supreme...

I don’t get this apology for hypocrisy.

But we’re getting off topic. Besides, we’ve lost Joël.
Ponts du monde : concours de photos amical de juillet 2026 Rubrique Jeux Voyages C'est le moment de poster vos meilleurs clichés !
AT Attila Globetrotter ·
Just because some French people are overwhelmed by their freedom doesn’t mean it’s worthless.

It’s pretty tough to have a discussion with you. You’ve got an ideological stance (well, do you even have one?) that’s all over the place, mainly focused on controversy and contrarianism.

But whatever.

Feel free to prefer Afghanistan over France. I’ll leave you to exile yourself there with my blessing.😛
Ponts du monde : concours de photos amical de juillet 2026 Rubrique Jeux Voyages C'est le moment de poster vos meilleurs clichés !
AT Attila Globetrotter ·
it’s loneliness

Isn’t it when man is alone with himself that he’s supposed to meet God?

And if he’s facing himself during that encounter, doesn’t that mean man is God?
Ponts du monde : concours de photos amical de juillet 2026 Rubrique Jeux Voyages C'est le moment de poster vos meilleurs clichés !
UN UnaMilanese Veteran ·
Hi,

Isn’t it alone, facing himself, that man is supposed to meet God?

And if he’s facing himself during that encounter, doesn’t that mean man is God?

No idea what he’s supposed to meet. But these days, under our skies, I get the feeling he’s meeting what we call *psicofarmaci* here (the chemical molecules that smooth out the psyche, giving him social acceptability).

Catherine
By this, and this only, we have existed. Which is not to be found in our obituaries. (T.S. Eliot)
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
Hello...

Just because some French people are overwhelmed by their freedom doesn’t mean it’s worthless.

It’s astonishing to hear such a thing. You always bring up Taliban Afghanistan as if France should define and position itself in relation to the most extreme example—a kind of reductio ad Hitlerum. What I see, personally, is a country where the State, ironically, fills the role of religion: In France, the State meddles in everything—from the spelling of your first name to how you raise your children, from the relationship you’re supposed to have with your body to the many resulting regulations, from the Caillavet law to vaccine mandates, from your health (to the point of now forcing you to have mutual insurance) to pestering you with screening campaigns, from the color of your house’s facade to what you’re allowed to say, almost to what you’re allowed to think in silence, from your freedom to move around to soon dictating what you can wear in the "public space". This State, which barely hides its project to control online expression, eliminate anonymity, increase surveillance, and police opinions by misrepresenting them, you see as an asset against religions. I disagree—and I think what belongs to religion should be left to religion.

Michel
UN UnaMilanese Veteran ·
Hello,

It’s astonishing to say such a thing. You always bring up Taliban-era Afghanistan, as if France should define and position itself in relation to the most extreme example—a sort of reductio ad Hitlerum. What I see, for my part, is a country where the State, ironically, fills the role of religion: In France, the State meddles in everything—from the spelling of your first name, to how you raise your children, to the relationship you’re supposed to have with your body, resulting in countless regulations, from the Caillavet law to vaccine mandates, to your health (now even forcing you into a mutual insurance plan), to pestering you with screening campaigns, to the color of your house’s facade, to what you’re allowed to say, almost to what you’re allowed to think in silence, to your freedom to move around, and soon to what you wear in the "public space". This State, which barely hides its project to control online expression, eliminate anonymity, increase surveillance, and police opinions by misrepresenting them, you see as an asset against religions. I disagree—and I think what falls under religion should be left to religion.

The fact is, if you claim that people live by religion, you’ll have to admit that in its absence, something must replace it and serve the same purpose. In France, the State, as the guarantor of secularism, underpins what you call the "living together" pact. Once that pact is destroyed, there’s no objective reason to live with those who annoy you.

Since I’m replying here:

And just because you or I might be capable of it doesn’t mean we should wish it for everyone.

I don’t wish it (indifference to various gods, national nonsense, and consumerist ideologies) for everyone. I just observe a rigidity in my fellow citizens who cling to obtuse, often fanatical groups to escape despair. And I’m glad that a few individuals—whose growing rarity makes them dear to me—escape these movements.

Catherine
By this, and this only, we have existed. Which is not to be found in our obituaries. (T.S. Eliot)
AT Attila Globetrotter ·
It’s mind-blowing to read such prose. 🙂 I’ll let you pontificate from the comfort of your slippers in a country where you risk nothing by spouting your writings—France. 😉 How about doing the same from North Korea, Eritrea, Saudi Arabia, Ethiopia, Azerbaijan, Vietnam, Iran, China, Myanmar, Cuba, or Venezuela… 😛
Ponts du monde : concours de photos amical de juillet 2026 Rubrique Jeux Voyages C'est le moment de poster vos meilleurs clichés !
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
Hello Catherine,

The fact is, if you claim that men live by religion, you’ll have to agree that in its absence, it’s essential that something replace it and serve the same purpose.

It’s easier to free oneself from a religion than from a State that serves as one. I’m happy to discuss French secularism—I know you’ve been away for a long time—but the concept currently being pushed has little in common with the secularism I was raised with. A shift in the early 2000s toward something far less liberal may have escaped your notice. We used to talk about state neutrality and the guarantee of freedoms, in line with the 1905 law, but now we’ve gone much further in controlling public and private life, as well as social and moral action.

Michel
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
I’ll let you ramble away in your slippers from a country where you risk nothing spouting your writings, France.😉

I’m not in France right now. It’s funny to see how programmed you are. On the points I’m raising, you could try comparing them with dozens of other countries. But you’d rather stay blind. Anyway, let’s drop it—we won’t get anywhere on this topic. You’ve never made the effort to accept, or even listen to, François’s positions in the past, which were similar on these moral and societal issues.

Michel
AT Attila Globetrotter ·
Michel, you’re impossible—it’s not cool to drag a dead person’s memory into this to back up your point.
Ponts du monde : concours de photos amical de juillet 2026 Rubrique Jeux Voyages C'est le moment de poster vos meilleurs clichés !
HE Herodotos Regular ·
Hello Mr. Tatra,

In France, the state meddles in everything—from the spelling of your first name to how you raise your children, the relationship with your body that you're supposed to have, and the resulting numerous regulations, from the Caillavet law to vaccine mandates, your health (to the point of now forcing you to have supplementary insurance), pestering you with screening campaigns, the color of your house’s facade, what you're allowed to say, almost what you're allowed to think in silence, your freedom to move around, and soon what you wear in the "public space".

Mr. Tatra, in your hodgepodge of "freedom-killing" laws and regulations, you forgot the Évin law of January 19, 1991. I’m glad it exists because I’m relieved I no longer have to breathe in smoke during my meetings or be called intolerant when I complained.

On the other hand, my friend Gérard, a great athlete, mountaineer, and non-smoker, wasn’t so lucky to benefit from this "freedom-killing" law since his colleagues who shared his office had the freedom to fill the place with smoke until 1991. My friend Gérard, who had just retired, and I had many mountain projects together. Unfortunately, you see, Mr. Tatra, he couldn’t enjoy them because he died prematurely from lung cancer due to secondhand smoke...
https://www.myatlas.com/Herodote
PO Poste42 Veteran ·
For centuries, religion was used to lead people by "the nose," and then science came along with explanations, so it lost some of its power. But I think religion is a topic to avoid, like a few others, because it’s explosive.
HE Herodotos Regular ·
North Korea, Eritrea, Saudi Arabia, Ethiopia, Azerbaijan, Vietnam, Iran, China, Myanmar, Cuba, Venezuela...

... Russia, Belarus, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan (taboo subject!), Bahrain, Syria, Iraq, Egypt, the UAE, etc., etc.

World Press Freedom Ranking according to RSF: see here But RSF would be under orders, so...
https://www.myatlas.com/Herodote
JO Jojoone1 Globetrotter ·
But I think the topic of religions should be avoided, like some others, because it’s explosive.

I’d even say it’s a ticking time bomb.
« Tout le monde s'interroge sur comment laisser une meilleure planète à nos enfants, mais on devrait plutôt penser à laisser de meilleurs enfants pour notre planète. » Clint Eastwood
HE Herodotos Regular ·
And France is ranked 21st, way ahead of that great Land of the Free, the United States of America (between Belize and Gabon)!

But I guess it’s probably another lie...
https://www.myatlas.com/Herodote
AT Attila Globetrotter ·
You forgot Turkey! 😉

I don’t know why, but sometimes Tatra’s speeches remind me of this.
Ponts du monde : concours de photos amical de juillet 2026 Rubrique Jeux Voyages C'est le moment de poster vos meilleurs clichés !
HE Herodotos Regular ·
You forgot Turkey!

Yes, and India! Very touristy countries. When you come back from there, you realize how lucky you are to have a European passport!
https://www.myatlas.com/Herodote
ZO Zorba Veteran ·
Alright, a little Tatra punching bag session!
LI LillieoneFE Veteran ·
" ce ne peut être que la fin du monde en avançant " A.Rimbaud
AT Attila Globetrotter ·
Hi Lillie, 🙂

For Ethiopia and Cuba (and the rest, for that matter), it's a ranking of the worst countries for press freedom.

we're off-topic here, except to answer "what are they doing"?

Yep.😉

But at least we’ve left Brittany!

Where are they and what are they doing?

It’d be up to those who haven’t been active on VF since its closure—or even a bit before—to answer.

Have they stopped traveling? Found another platform? Don’t know about the buyout and reopening?

Maybe it’s better to ask how we can attract new faces?
Ponts du monde : concours de photos amical de juillet 2026 Rubrique Jeux Voyages C'est le moment de poster vos meilleurs clichés !
NI Nimou74 Veteran ·
Hello everyone,

Here we go again, a little Tatra-punching session!

Yep. We’re ganging up on the scapegoat. Not great, all this... It seems Tatra is becoming the punching bag for some, even to the point of attributing statements to him that aren’t even his: One example among many:

Feel free to prefer Afghanistan to France

(Where did Tatra ever say he preferred Afghanistan to France?) You might not agree with his ideas—though he often shows common sense, at least in my opinion—but the responses he gets are so aggressive and sometimes so bad-faith that it’s becoming uncomfortable.

I’d like to come back to the title: so where are they and what are they doing? Personally, I’m here, like many others, and until now, I’ve mostly just been reading the posts in this section without chiming in too much. But how to put it... I’m getting tired of it. So many biting remarks, yet when VF reopened, everyone was participating with tact, testing the waters a bit.

Old habits die hard... There’s also not much info on destinations anymore. But the reasons for that have already been explained. On the other hand, some members post to contribute and are simply ignored by the big names in the discussions, which makes them feel out of their depth. So they give up. It feels like an insiders’ club now. 😕 This is just my take, of course, but since the discussion is turning into another controversy, I wanted to respond to the original topic.

Have a good day,

Anne-Claire
UN UnaMilanese Veteran ·
Hello,

It’s easier to free oneself from a religion than from a State that acts as one.

I don’t think the difficulty is tied to the nature of the pressure, but rather to its degree of fanaticism.

I’m happy to discuss French secularism, and I know you’ve been away for a long time, but the concept currently being pushed has little to do with the secularism I was raised with. A shift in the early 2000s toward something far less liberal may have escaped your notice. We used to talk about state neutrality and guaranteed freedoms, in line with the 1905 law, but now we’ve gone much further in controlling public and private life, as well as social and moral action.

The last thing I saw in France were the 9/11 attacks. I left a few months later. So, as far as France is concerned, I’m fossilized in the late 20th century (which suits me just fine). I have to admit I don’t understand much of what’s going on anymore. The impression I get is that the path chosen is a mix of isolation and pride—a besieged stance that defends itself by legislating more and more, on everything, with every small group wanting its particularities recognized, leading to collective suffocation. I’ve had strange experiences there, like having an -e tacked onto my academic title without being asked (still not sure why something neutral suddenly had to be overtly gendered. I must’ve missed too many episodes). I find it amusing that "yes" or "with pleasure" have lately been replaced by "no problem" (you hear it *everywhere*!), in a people (are they still one?) so tense.

Catherine
By this, and this only, we have existed. Which is not to be found in our obituaries. (T.S. Eliot)
ZO Zorba Veteran ·
And the "good luck" like it’s needed to get through the rest of the day
UN UnaMilanese Veteran ·
Hi,

But I think the topic of religions should be avoided, like some others, because it’s explosive.

If the alternative to an explosion is an implosion, I’m not sure we’d gain anything from it. Regular, moderate explosions (in terms of intensity, not censored) are healthier (by releasing pressure) than anything else—even if we end up with our hair looking like fireworks 😛

Catherine
By this, and this only, we have existed. Which is not to be found in our obituaries. (T.S. Eliot)
MA Mathews Globetrotter ·
. But how to put it... I'm getting tired of it

I’d even say the loop is closed since the members of this forum will have nothing left to say to each other...😉 Here we are, not much further ahead. So you don’t like opinion-makers, those who stir things up, people who reinvent the world? Since these discussions are causing weariness, what would you consider a relevant discussion, then? A discussion where small talk matters?
LI LillieoneFE Veteran ·
" ce ne peut être que la fin du monde en avançant " A.Rimbaud
AT Attila Globetrotter ·
It seems Tatra is becoming a punching bag for some again

I haven’t read anything like that. Tatra writes a message, he gets replies. They don’t always agree with him, which is a good thing for diverse opinions.

Where did Tatra say he preferred Afghanistan to France?)

I’m not telling anyone anything new by saying Tatra does a lot of France-bashing all over the forum. He’s way less critical when it comes to other countries. Maybe the U.S. and Spanish-speaking countries...

Anyway, he gives the impression that France is hell compared to other countries that are actually ranked at the bottom of many lists.

It’s up to him to correct the image some of us (including me) have of him based on his posts. 🙂 If that image is wrong, that is. Tatra is a mystery. Is he for real or just trolling? I’ve never been able to tell.
Ponts du monde : concours de photos amical de juillet 2026 Rubrique Jeux Voyages C'est le moment de poster vos meilleurs clichés !
PO Poste42 Veteran ·
Hi. Things are going downhill fast—explosion, implosion, we're in the negative. Moderation helps, but it can spiral quickly, especially with topics like money, religion, and politics. I’m not in the mood to stand out with crazy hair.
AT Attila Globetrotter ·
Yeah, there are some new faces, but it’s still pretty quiet.

Anyway, a lot of the answers are already in the forum! !
Ponts du monde : concours de photos amical de juillet 2026 Rubrique Jeux Voyages C'est le moment de poster vos meilleurs clichés !
HE Herodotos Regular ·
Alright, a little Tatra-punching bag session!

Tatra is handing out the stick to get beaten.
https://www.myatlas.com/Herodote
ZO Zorba Veteran ·
So, does that mean we need to take it on? And that there’s a proper way to handle it? Fits right in with the times, doesn’t it.

A tip: if it drives you nuts, just skip it and leave the reading to others.
HE Herodotos Regular ·
If you don’t get the metaphors, too bad! It’s not me who used the term "punching bag."

would there be a decent line to follow?

Yes, a code of conduct! When I read in this message: "It’s shocking to say such a thing," I find that it’s not very respectful. And I find the rest of their message disturbing. Everything’s attacked: the Caillavet law, which helped save lives, as well as screening campaigns. Are we serious here?

A tip: if he gets on your nerves, just skip it and let others read it.

Great advice, thanks! Besides, it’s not just him, and I’m simply going to skip VF altogether. Won’t be a big loss! Happy reading! 😛
https://www.myatlas.com/Herodote
AT Attila Globetrotter ·
just skip it altogether

But if no one engages with them, they’ll get bored.

And if only those who share their real or imagined views reply, the forum’s gonna get boring... Might as well just add a like button and send little hearts.
Ponts du monde : concours de photos amical de juillet 2026 Rubrique Jeux Voyages C'est le moment de poster vos meilleurs clichés !
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
Agnès,

And if only those who share his real or imagined positions respond to him, the forum is going to get boring...

But you’re not stating any position—just a kind of aggressive disbelief.

What I’m presenting is a liberal philosophy, classically rooted in the humanist concept of "natural rights," in its Anglo-Saxon evolution—Hayek, Nozick, Ruwen Ogien. Apparently, that’s enough to knock you off your chair.

Michel

PS: I’m in favor of donation, even organ sales, but against the state’s appropriation of bodies, indeed. Nothing so extraordinary. It’s not me who proposed the Avia law or who files bills to remove online anonymity in France. For the rest, ask in a PM—I’ll provide sources if you can’t find them.
AT Attila Globetrotter ·
I’m hardly likely to fall off my chair reading you. As I mentioned before, I see you through your posts as some kind of histrionic actor. And even if you weren’t, it wouldn’t change a thing. 🙂
Ponts du monde : concours de photos amical de juillet 2026 Rubrique Jeux Voyages C'est le moment de poster vos meilleurs clichés !
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
I’m hardly likely to fall off my chair reading you. As I’ve said before, I see you through your posts as a bit of a histrionic, an actor. And even if you weren’t, it wouldn’t change a thing.🙂

Some people just can’t ever think outside their own certainties. Oh well. Have a good evening.

Michel
AT Attila Globetrotter ·
Yeah, I’m stubborn. You’re absolutely right. 😉

See you soon.
Ponts du monde : concours de photos amical de juillet 2026 Rubrique Jeux Voyages C'est le moment de poster vos meilleurs clichés !
VO Voyajou Globetrotter ·
Good evening Anne-Claire,

On the other hand, some members join in to participate and are simply ignored by the big names in the discussions, which makes them feel out of their depth. So they give up. It seems like an insider’s club.😕

I share this observation. I’d add this: experts (the big names) on a destination or topic often welcome new message authors—and sometimes it’s their very first post—with condescension, if not outright contempt and sarcasm. That shuts people down.
VO Voyajou Globetrotter ·
Yes, I’m stubborn.

I agree 😇, but in the *Mille Bornes* game, you’re way behind your conversation partner!

Still, you’ve got support: "Thinking against oneself, says the philosopher. Yes, of course. As if the rest of the world weren’t already doing that. Thinking against yourself, being ruthless with your own certainties: fine. But this mental gymnastics still strikes me as intellectual vanity dressed up as modesty—it’s gratifying to imagine you’re thinking against yourself, and saying so lets you wrap your smugness in the guise of humility."

There are people like that who can never think against their own certainties.

That was clearly a self-portrait.

@Herodotos

Yes, a principle to live by! When I read in this message: "It’s shocking to say such a thing," I don’t think it’s very respectful. And I find the rest of their message disturbing.

I share your outrage.
TA Tatra Globetrotter ·
I share your outrage.

That’s the whole difference between us, Jean Luc; I don’t pass moral judgment on viewpoints that aren’t my own. Should I refrain from expressing—let alone referencing—viewpoints just because they ruffle your feathers? Nah.

Agnès is heading to Central Asia soon, and it’s going to be a game-changer for her. Right now, at least one new flight route opens every week between the Stans/Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Russia. Central Asia is clearly turning toward a certain world—one that’s nothing like European progressivism.

Michel
JO Jojoone1 Globetrotter ·
[ Central Asia is clearly turning toward a certain world, one that is not at all that of European progressivism. Michel

With those people, we’re clearly progressivizing our way toward the abyss. Denial of self, of one’s culture, even of one’s civilization.
« Tout le monde s'interroge sur comment laisser une meilleure planète à nos enfants, mais on devrait plutôt penser à laisser de meilleurs enfants pour notre planète. » Clint Eastwood
MA Mathews Globetrotter ·
hi Jojoone and Attila, Sophie Lefol (la chair à nu) has struck again in the Morocco section 🤪

Can’t we send an image in a private message?
JO Jojoone1 Globetrotter ·
I’m starting to reach an age where it’s not really reasonable to post pictures anymore 😉

Let’s just say the kind of travel this person suggests doesn’t meet my standards, which have always been pretty high. I also doubt we’ll ever see them in the "Hiking" section unless they get into outdoor sports. I’ll stop there—it’s easy to dive into the unfathomable 😉
« Tout le monde s'interroge sur comment laisser une meilleure planète à nos enfants, mais on devrait plutôt penser à laisser de meilleurs enfants pour notre planète. » Clint Eastwood
AT Attila Globetrotter ·
Can’t we send an image in a private message?

You can.

Through a workaround that’s mentioned somewhere on this forum...
Ponts du monde : concours de photos amical de juillet 2026 Rubrique Jeux Voyages C'est le moment de poster vos meilleurs clichés !
UN UnaMilanese Veteran ·
Currently, at least one new airline route opens every week between the Stans/Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Russia. Central Asia is clearly turning toward a certain world—one that’s not at all aligned with European progressivism.

Hey there, mysterious one (even though I don’t find you mysterious at all)

Isn’t that kind of normal? A region of "strong" men (what a strange idea of strength), long tightly tied (or even shackled?) to Russia within the USSR. Now, it’s dealing with the return of religion—in this case, Islam—and its spiritual-political offensive. The West, with its material comfort/Prozac combo, isn’t exactly appealing in this context.

Cat
By this, and this only, we have existed. Which is not to be found in our obituaries. (T.S. Eliot)

Similar discussions

You might also like