The title might surprise you, but you’ll understand my point of view.
1/ MEAL STRUCTURE
I’m talking about the standard meal, not the one for those who have to budget for financial reasons (generally fewer in northern and central Italy than in France, but more in the south, which makes up 35% of Italy—Eurostat figures), nor for those (mostly women) watching their figure.
The tradition (once the meal of the well-off, widespread among the general population in the 1950s) starts with soup or pasta (or rice, gnocchi, ravioli, lasagna)—this is the *primo piatto*.
Next comes meat or another animal-based product (fish, cured meats, eggs, etc.)—the *secondo piatto*, which can be replaced by cooked vegetables (the only known example in France: eggplant parmesan).
If the meat dish doesn’t already include vegetables, one is served. Salads, whether green or tomato-based, are side dishes, not starters.
The meal ends with dessert—no difference from French habits: cheese, fruit, or sweets.
*Antipasti* (appetizers) are reserved for festive meals or receptions and are served *in addition* to the main courses at the start.
4 practices unknown in France:
- If the menu includes pasta and ham, you start with the pasta.
- If the menu includes pasta with a meat sauce and fish, you start with the pasta too.
- Pasta is never a side dish for meat.
- It’s not unusual for Italians to start with pasta in a meat sauce and then have a meat dish—most do this several times a week.
Modern adaptations:
- People eat pasta less often (on average 5 times a week, according to recent figures) and soups, which are being replaced by *antipasti*.
- The main meal is now mostly dinner, so it’s much heartier, while lunch isn’t usually eaten at home.
2/ THE CUISINE
What do we know in France? Pizza, pasta Bolognese, carbonara, arrabbiata, ravioli, and lasagna. Fried scampi, Milanese or Bolognese cutlets, carpaccio, and finally tiramisu.
In short, a few basic dishes, but nothing of the gastronomy—whether regional traditions or high-end restaurants.
2 anecdotes:
**Bolognese sauce**
In Italy, the most common homemade sauce is a meat-and-tomato-based sauce called *ragù* (pronounced *ragoo*). Every region, even every town and family, as well as every restaurant, has its own recipe. *Ragù alla bolognese* is just one of these countless *ragù*—and no one in France knows the real recipe (I can share it with those interested). The name *bolognese* given abroad to any *ragù* comes from a canned sauce manufacturer who once branded their product that way. Until the early 1960s, it was called *sauce à la viande* (meat sauce).
**Pizza**
Before World War II, it was practically unknown north of Rome.
Today, Italy is one of the countries where it’s eaten the least (twice as much in France, four times as much in Germany).
Not unknown to everyone in France! There are many French people with Italian ancestry. Personally, with half-Piedmontese roots, I got to enjoy some truly authentic and healthy meals with my grandparents: yep, lots of soups to start (the famous minestrone), as you mentioned, plenty of rice (risotto), relatively few pasta dishes (like pasta asciutta, or rather "paste seutche" in Piedmontese), quite a bit of polenta, and when we wanted to keep it really simple... "casteugne latche" (chestnuts boiled in hot milk)! And of course, never, ever saw pizza at home!
Hey Giorgio, I know a bit about Italian *mamas'* cooking because I have some distant family in Sicily, and I can tell everyone it’s one of the best cuisines I know. What’s more, Italians cook with passion—I’m not talking about pizzas, not the ones we eat in France. It’s a real treat for the taste buds.
A real pizza is the one you eat with almost nothing on top and just a thin layer of fresh tomato sauce—*miaaaammmmmmmmmmmmmm* 😎😛😛—and that’s how you know if it’s good!
je respecte l’environnement, j’honore les gens que je rencontre et j’exprime ma gratitude envers la vie et tous les êtres vivants... parceque je sais que cahcun d'entre nous est important et que rien n'y personne ne doit être mis de côté !
It’s certain that the two cuisines you know have nothing in common: Piedmontese cuisine with its heavy use of butter and lard, and Sicilian cuisine with olive oil.
Pizza: great in Sicily, to avoid north of Rome.
I could add that we often reduce Italian cuisine to pasta, but while an Italian eats an average of 23 kg of pasta per year, they eat 82 kg of meat. Italians are actually the second-biggest beef consumers in Europe, just after the French.
A few Piedmontese classics:
As an antipasto: Piedmontese fondue and bagna cauda (which, when you increase the portions, often serves as a secondo piatto).
As a primo piatto: agnolotti.
Meat secondi: beef in Barolo wine, finanziera, cassoeula di Novara, bollito misto.
FOR MARYLOU AND EVERYONE
BOLOGNESE RAGU (official recipe registered with the Bologna Chamber of Commerce)
For 6 people:
500 g ground beef
75 g pancetta and 75 g lard, coarsely chopped
A mix of one celery stalk, one medium carrot, and one small onion, finely chopped
½ glass dry white wine
A little meat broth
1 liter whole milk
Salt, pepper
200 g tomato purée (make your own by reducing 1 kg of tomatoes)
Gently melt the lard and pancetta.
Add the chopped vegetables and let them soften slowly.
Add the meat and cook, stirring often, until the strands separate.
Add the wine and tomato purée diluted in a little broth, salt, pepper, and simmer for 2 hours.
At the end of cooking, mix in the cream from 1 liter of whole milk (the milk should have boiled beforehand, as it can be used if the sauce needs more liquid during cooking).
Important: at the end, there should be no visible liquid.
Personal note:
1. Often, the milk cream is replaced with a knob of butter (not specific to Bolognese).
2. No oregano or olive oil—these aren’t part of traditional Bolognese cuisine. Some add nutmeg, but it’s not in the official recipe.
NON-BOLOGNESE RAGU COMMON IN TUSCANY
Replace the lard and pancetta with the meat from an Italian sausage, added to the pot at the same time as the beef.
Start by cooking the chopped vegetables in a mix of olive oil and butter.
When adding the wine, skip the tomato and cook on high heat until the wine evaporates.
Then add the tomato and proceed as with the Bolognese, but without the milk. Finish with a knob of butter.
During cooking, you can add aromatic herbs like oregano, thyme, marjoram, parsley, basil, etc., and nutmeg.
VARIATION: Replace the beef and sausage with duck or goose (just buy a duck breast and grind it). In this case, prepare the sauce ahead of time, refrigerate it to remove the surface fat, then reheat before serving.
IMPORTANT: In restaurants, everyone mixes their own sauce with their pasta, but at home, the pasta is served already dressed.
It really makes me want to try it!
Thanks for all the detailed explanations—it’s super interesting, and I’ll definitely let you know how my next attempt at this "real" bolognese turns out.
Thanks😉
For example, here’s the menu from a restaurant I recently visited in Umbria: this isn’t nouvelle cuisine but regional cooking, it’s not high-end, 56 € for two people for an antipasto and a primo piatto / 2 secondi piatti / dessert / wine.
ANTIPASTI
Warm smoked tench salad with potatoes and Treviso radishes
Ramekin of Grana Padano with truffle sauce (Umbria produces a lot of truffles)
Cèpes and pancetta canapés
Green polenta canapés
Antipasti platter
PRIMI PIATTI
Pici (pasta) with smoked eel and beans
Tagliatelle with cèpes
Cheese-stuffed gnocchi with cabbage and mascarpone
Penne with duck ragù
Risotto with Sangiovese and Treviso radishes
SECONDI PIATTI
Tegamaccio (freshwater fish in sauce)
Eel skewers
Duck and pork in oven-baked sauce
Roast wild boar
Beef braised with cèpes
Baked Grana Padano with black truffles
VEGETABLES
Sautéed potatoes with truffles and arugula
Mixed salad
Fries
Baked Treviso radishes
Beans in oil
DESSERTS
Crunchy biscuit with coconut cream and hot chocolate
Caramelized cream with mascarpone and banana
Chestnuts in syrup with chocolate and cream
Chocolate mousse
Fruit turnover with wild berries, syrup, and whipped cream
Nothing like the so-called Italian restaurants in France
If I may add a little precision, it drives the people of Emilia-Romagna crazy to see ragù used as a topping for spaghetti (the famous "spaghetti bolognese" are, in their view, heresy). You need hollow pasta (penne, for example, which you can easily find in France).
At the same time, let's not exaggerate—my whole family lives in Parma and eats spaghetti with ragù sauce from time to time without being called heretics 😉. Another version that’s widely used with any kind of pasta is the "in bianco" version—just some fat and a ton of Parmesan😉
Other dishes I find lesser-known in France are tortelli (stuffed with Swiss chard, potatoes, or pumpkin) and capelletti, and for secondo, meat and veggies cooked to make broth with salsa verde—yummmm. Or even cotechino (not sure about the spelling), which I’m not a fan of, but it’s a winter tradition.
I’m digging up this post just to correct an error because I stumbled upon it while searching, and it bothered me a little ^^
I could’ve added that Italian cuisine is often reduced to pasta; yet while an Italian today eats an average of 23 kg of pasta per year, they eat 82 kg of meat
Numbers can sometimes cloud our judgment—like in this article, pasta is more often eaten as a first course (so we’re no longer talking about the 125 g average for a main dish). If you compare it to the number of days in a year, 23 kg per year actually means a lot of starters.
All that to say, it’s not a cliché—Italians *are* pasta eaters. In my family, we eat pasta 6 days a week ^^
on average, it's 5 meals per week (so 5 out of 14). Of course, that's an average—I know people who eat it practically every meal, and others who never eat it at home. I'm obviously talking about people who live in Italy; descendants of immigrants aren't representative at all
While pasta is everywhere in Italy, beyond that, there are as many different cuisines as there are regions—or even micro-regions.
I’ve often noticed (though I could be wrong) that regional cuisine rarely leaves its home region. It’s almost as if you couldn’t eat *choucroute* in Bordeaux or *cassoulet* in Lille.
One of my favorite dishes is a Tuscan winter classic: *ribollita*. Officially a soup, but really, it’s more like a thick vegetable stew (recipe on *marmiton*).
When you step away from the touristy spots, you’ll find loads of restaurants serving regional cuisine from other parts of Italy. For example, in Rome, there are tons of Tuscan, Emilian, Neapolitan, Sicilian, Abruzzese, and Sardinian restaurants—though sometimes in smaller numbers—but pretty much every region is represented. The same goes for all major cities and even some villages.
There are also a few classics that started as regional dishes but are now found everywhere: pizza and tiramisu, obviously, baked lasagna (which we call "Bolognese" outside Italy), stracotto, osso buco, Milanese escalope (often without the word "Milanese" outside Milan), zuppa inglese, and more...
kind of a tough argument to settle; but an Italian document from 1148 mentions breaded veal slices served in a meal. Then it seems to me that in the Wiener Schnitzel there’s flour, but not in the Milanese;
by the way, according to Italians, rum baba is Neapolitan, profiteroles (no 's') and béchamel are Florentine
Zuppa inglese, a typically Italian dish... which means "English soup"! 🙂
In fact, the dish's origins date back to the 16th century, when the Dukes of Este asked their chefs to recreate the English trifle they had tasted at Queen Elizabeth's court.
Cooking is a never-ending (and delicious) journey...
Ironically, the Genoese sponge cake is called *pan di Spagna* (Spanish bread) in Italy.
Back to *milanese*: in Milan, they’re not called *escalopes* but *cotoletta*, though there’s no bone—it’s been deboned. Throughout Italy, a *cotoletta* is a deboned veal chop, a *bistecca* is a (rare) veal or (more commonly) beef chop with the bone, a *tagliata* is a French-style beef steak, and a *steak* is a very thin slice of beef (2 or 3 mm).
When they just say *veal* without specifying, it means *taurillon* (veal that’s started grazing). It’s only *milk-fed veal* if it’s specified.
Bolognese sauce is called *ragù*, an orthographic Italianization of the French word *ragoût*. A *ragoût* is a *stufato*, though you’ll more often find specific recipe names like *peposo* (because it’s very peppery) in Tuscany, *stracotto* everywhere, *beef in Barolo* in Piedmont, *ragù napoletano* in Naples (which is both a meatless sauce for pasta as a first course, then the meat is served with vegetables afterward), etc...
While pasta is ubiquitous in Italy, beyond that, there are as many different cuisines as there are regions—or even micro-regions.
I’ve often noticed (though I could be wrong) that regional cuisine hardly ever leaves its area of origin. It’s a bit like how you’d never find sauerkraut in Bordeaux or cassoulet in Lille.
One of my favorite dishes is a Tuscan winter specialty: ribollita, officially a soup but really more like a thick vegetable stew (recipe on marmiton).
And that’s exactly it—I find it hard to come by cuisine from other French regions in France, aside from a few well-known dishes.
I’ve never seen Niçois stuffed vegetables or socca outside the Nice area, tourtons outside the Gap region, maroilles chicken outside the Lille area, or Lyonnais specialties far from Lyon, etc. Sure, there must be a few exceptions, but it’s definitely not widespread! Even real bouillabaisse is tough to find! The Bretons have managed to export their galettes, but that kind of regional cuisine spreading across the country is rare.
Anyway.
Back to Italian cuisine—it’s clearly one of the best in the world, and while we have good Italian restaurants in France, the dish selection is pretty limited. Not to mention carbonara, which never follows the real recipe—there’s always cream in it, sacrilege!
But is it really just about saving money that people don’t eat a proper full meal by the book anymore?
Personally, in Italy, if I have pasta, that’s my dish—I don’t feel like stuffing myself with anything else afterward except maybe dessert, but not another main course. If you add antipasti, forget about dessert—I can’t even manage it! Not everyone has a bottomless stomach (or a pasta-based one?).
I’ve noticed there aren’t many obese people in Italy—they seem to eat healthily (though I haven’t been to the south except Sicily), take their time, and I love that!
The best food I’ve had was in Sicily, and I miss it—I might go back just for that!
We actually have better pizzas in France, I’m from Provence, and pizza has become a local dish, almost a staple. It’s true that in Italy, they’re not always amazing, though I haven’t been back to Naples in nearly 20 years—I’m excited to try their pizzas! One of the best I’ve ever had was in Trapani, yum! 😛
On the other hand, maybe our friend Girogio can shed some light, but I feel like there’s a lack of dessert variety there—always the same things on the menu. As someone with a sweet tooth, I’m a little disappointed, though thankfully, I love tiramisu (even if I’m getting tired of it). Of course, given how amazing their gelati are, we’ll let it slide!
Gotta say one thing—since 2007, there’s been nothing but changes in the taste of food.
I think in Italy, just like in France, there are multiple definitions of a dish that uses the same ingredients but is prepared differently. I won’t list the Italian dishes for you.
A fresh example: I just finished my cod *riste* (a stew for some). Same ingredients, different preparations (compared to a meat and potato stew).
The first time I was served an *escalope à la milanaise*, it was like a *cordon bleu*—which didn’t even exist back then—with a bit of tomato sauce and cheese inside. So I firmly believed *milanaise* meant breaded + sauce + cheese. Go figure.
And the list goes on.
As for origins, everyone has their own version.
@GEORGESOZ: For us, *pasta seutche* was like bolognese without carrots—at least, that’s what it looked like when reading quickly. I think that’s it. My dad was from Piedmont, and my mom cooked like them: polenta and, well, the rest of it too. 😛
@MIRANDA: If you still want to eat well in Sicily, go quickly. When you say a good *bouille*, you’re talking about the rich version, but the best one, to me, is like in *Martigues*—basically, the poor man’s version.
@GIORGIO (from another discussion): If I can share the recipe, I’ll send you a PM about the old-school *vol-au-vent*—maybe it’ll come close?
I think that in Italy, just like in France, there are several definitions of a dish containing the same ingredients but prepared differently—I won’t list Italian dishes for you.
Precisely, that’s the beauty of culinary diversity! There are classic recipes, but everyone tweaks them a bit to their own taste, and the same dish can be quite different from one country to another, one region to another, or even one family to another. As for saying which is the best, that’s a whole other story!!!
If we take tiramisu as an example, there are plenty of recipes: you can make it with fruit (a strawberry tiramisu—what a treat 😛!) and there are even some oddballs who make tiramisu with foie gras!
I even came across a website once where comedians explained (totally seriously!) how certain national dishes are made in other countries: how poutine is made in France, pizza in Iceland, churrasco in Germany, beef bourguignon in Canada, etc., etc. 🤪!!!
In Palermo, a small unassuming trattoria where dishes cost between 6 and 10 € (for the fritto misto), all of them really good! There weren’t a ton of other options, I’ll admit—if it disappears, I don’t know where I’d go... But I have great memories of it!
I’m not sure about the difference between *milanese* and *viennese*, but in Central Europe, breaded cutlets are pretty common under the name kotleta (sometimes without the *a*). I imagine the Austrians brought this dish, and since Milan was under Austrian rule...
The cutlet with cheese and tomato sauce has another name—I think I’ve seen it called *florentine*, but I’m not sure if that’s exactly right.
Here in Belgium, the *escalope fiorentine* is often associated with a tomato sauce with spinach, tomato sauce, and Parmesan—maybe it’s a *parmigiana*? Otherwise, I think it’d be great if we created a thread where everyone shares a family recipe (those are the best recipes, in my opinion! ^^)
Anyway, cheese, ham, tomato—that’s also an Argentinian dish, but with a beef escalope! I tried it in Madrid, yum! But yeah, Argentinian cuisine is half-influenced by Italian cuisine given the number of Italian immigrants there were over there!
There are quite a few dishes that no longer resemble the original once they leave their country or region. Starting with the pseudo-Chinese cuisine or sushi from most Asian restaurants here.
In a different category, in India at Khajuraho, an "Italian" restaurant (apparently the owner is Italian) serves carbonara. When it's time to serve, the waiter says, "sorry, no bacon."
Dishes that no longer resemble the original at all once they leave their country or region—there are quite a few. Starting with pseudo-Chinese cuisine or sushi from most Asian restaurants here.
In a different category, in India at Khajuraho, an "Italian" restaurant (apparently the owner is Italian) serves carbonara. When bringing the dish, the waiter says, "sorry, no bacon."
Yes, it's well known. Most so-called "Chinese" restaurants in Europe are often Vietnamese. I once knew a real Chinese place in Brussels, run by people from Shanghai, and it was something else. Not that Vietnamese food is bad, but real Chinese cuisine is different.
Another feature of "exotic" restaurants in Europe: the food is often much less spicy than "back home" because our European palates simply wouldn’t handle it! 🙂
I once went to an Indian restaurant that offered seasoning levels: "sweet," "medium," or "hot." Thinking they cooked European-style, I asked for medium. Good grief! They cooked like in India, and it was on fire! I still wonder what the "hot" option must’ve been like!
You're lucky, because in the Paris region, most Indian places are pretty bland (except for those around Gare du Nord, but they're usually South Indian vegetarians).
As for the "Chinese" spots, they're often run by Chinese (Japanese places too). I'm not blaming them for cooking Vietnamese, Thai, or Chinese food, but just for not being good (though, thankfully, there are exceptions). This is because in France, the "local Chinese" has become a cafeteria with all-you-can-eat buffets for around ten euros... Eating badly for cheap is still too expensive.
I really love the Indian food we have here. Sure, it’s probably not exactly like over there, but I’ve never been, so in the meantime, I’m enjoying it! I don’t find it bland at all. It’s probably not as spicy as in India, but personally, I prefer that since I can’t handle spicy food—so it’s perfect. Besides, should a chicken korma or "butter chicken" even be spicy?
Same with Chinese restaurants—I haven’t been to China yet, so in the meantime, picking up a few things from the local takeout place helps mix things up a bit.
I love the culinary diversity in Paris. I don’t really eat out much (or rarely do), and honestly, it doesn’t matter if it’s like "over there"—as long as it’s good!
Just reading these two recipes makes my mouth water.
This kind of passing down of culinary knowledge should be declared a Public Utility. No joke.
In 50 years, we’ve gone from delicious, healthy home cooking based on good ingredients in France and many other countries to bland, industrial food that’s dangerous for our health.
Italy has largely escaped this, at least in the South where I often travel, and families still carry on extraordinary culinary traditions with incredible diversity and quality. But kids are stuffing themselves with Nutella and other junk. And agriculture is becoming industrialized: in Notto, I found sun-dried cherry tomatoes that were absolutely divine. But on the roads in the region, I saw tons of ads from multinationals pushing GMOs and pesticides.
Result: the *pomodorini* you find in France, "made in Sicilia," look beautiful. But they’re inedible—no taste, no flavor.
And yet, yes, Giorgio, Sicily is a culinary paradise.
And over there, a little trip to Turin, where it’s not bad either:
Bicerin: chocolate at the bottom, then coffee, and finally whipped cream
Tasted at Eataly—a focaccia with cured ham and buffalo mozzarella. Every ingredient was just amazing, and I think the most incredible part was the dough. I’ve never eaten anything so simple yet so good!
Eataly is a concept that combines a huge Italian specialty grocery store with dining spots to taste everything, a culinary bookstore—basically, a must-visit in Turin. We bought some finocchiona there that I still dream about...
a few answers to the latest comments:
- about full meals: I don’t see how eating pasta as a starter leads to eating more than in France. Last week in Beaujolais, I had a menu with a Beaujolais salad (salad, tomatoes, hard-boiled eggs, bacon, croutons) as a starter. With bread, that’s easily the equivalent of a standard Italian pasta dish with 85g of pasta and 50g of meat (before cooking). Then came coq au vin with... pasta. To me, that’s more than just an escalope with salad or peas. And finally, dessert (dessert for dessert, it’s a tie).
Anyway, never go to prison in Italy—even there, you’ll get pasta as a starter.
- about desserts: there are tons of desserts, and there are also creations by real chefs. Of course, it might not be easy to find in cheap touristy restaurants—gastronomy comes at a price.
- about pizza: for once, I agree with La Souris. Pizzas are way better in Provence than in Italy, including in Naples (horrible pizzas with 2 cm of dough and 0.5mm of toppings).
- about extreme Eastern cuisine in France: like Italian cuisine, it’s nothing like the original. The whole concept of starter/main course/etc. doesn’t exist in those countries. A meal means as many different dishes as there are guests, all on the table at once—except for those that need to be eaten hot right away.
And to make your mouth water, you’ll find stories of Italian meals with photos mixed into travel tales here:
http://voyageforum.com/v.f?post=7449383;search_string=venise%20%2Ctrieste%20%2C%20porec
In France, starters are often ridiculously small (in size), maybe less so in the provinces than in Paris, but they rarely match the size of a pasta dish (and in Italy, pasta dishes are often much more than 85 g—that’s the size of a pasta dish here).
But even in France, a "large" starter, a main course, and a dessert—I just can’t eat that much.
I already struggle to finish a pizza (if it’s well-topped, of course), so all that...
I doubt everyone in Italy eats that much; it must be for special occasions. Even in non-touristy restaurants, it’s rare to see people ordering antipasti, pasta, a main course, and dessert (I saw some in a good restaurant we went to—they couldn’t finish and offered me a taste of their dessert because I was looking at what it was!).
Of course, you can order all that and waste half of it, but personally, I hate waste. I only order what I’m likely to finish, and it’s rare for me to send back a half-full plate, unlike others who bite off more than they can chew.
I was talking about "traditional" desserts, not those from high-end chefs. In France, any small restaurant will offer several choices—though what they’re worth (often frozen) is another story.
And this condescension toward those who don’t have the luck of your budget is tiring after a while.
There’s no budget condescension here—lots of people go to Italy and stay in hotels I’d never afford, then eat cheaply in touristy restaurants. The whole point of a forum is that we’re talking to everyone, not just one specific case.
The antipasti-primo-secondo meal is for special occasions and maybe at restaurants (keep in mind that in Italy, you pay *coperto*, which covers the cover charge and lets you share a dish). I’m obviously talking about people who go out for a nice meal in their own city. Tourist restaurants also attract Italian tourists who, like you, have to pay for travel and accommodation and cut back on dining costs.
In all communal settings (schools, prisons, hospitals, etc.), the meal consists of a primo, a secondo, and a dessert. The same goes for half-board at hotels—hotel restaurants are generally much better than touristy ones, by the way.
At home on regular days, you start with pasta or soup, followed by a secondo. Since dietary or financial reasons mean we don’t eat meat every meal, the secondo could be a vegetable dish (we all know eggplant parmesan and caponata, but there are *so* many more), a composed salad, cheese, or an omelet. If the menu includes pasta and cured meat (like salami or prosciutto), the meat is eaten *after* as the secondo. Antipasti are theoretically reserved for festive meals or when you have guests. These days, they often replace pasta since pasta consumption has dropped.
I avoid the "tourist trap" restaurants, and from experience, it's not in the most expensive places that you eat best in Italy—it's more in the small neighborhood trattorias.
That was our case in Rome. Our apartment was outside the Aurelian Walls, so no tourists, a small local restaurant with very simple decor, and the pasta was *really* excellent! 7 € for the "simple" pasta (we tried carbonara, cacio e pepe, and amatriciana, I think), and believe me, it was a huge plate—we couldn’t order anything else except dessert. Given the size of the tiramisu, the next time we shared one! 13 € for the spaghetti vongole e tartufo, great value for money, really good, not touristy at all, and packed on Saturday night!
Of course, I’m sure there are some "gourmet" restaurants where you eat very well. We tried a great Sardinian restaurant (it didn’t only have Sardinian dishes) on a small street—I don’t think it was a touristy place. Mid-range prices, and really good too.
In Italy, I’d say there’s something for every budget, but you have to know where to look! It’s not always obvious when you arrive in central Rome and don’t know the area. The first year, I didn’t eat very well (we stayed in the center), except in a small restaurant near our place (far from the center). The following years, as we got to know the city a bit better, we enjoyed it more and more! We alternated between small neighborhood spots, aperitivo bars (which are great when you’re not very hungry and paying for a full meal would be a waste), and slightly fancier restaurants.
In any case, the food is never bad—I’ll give you that. It’s really a country where you eat very well!
As I said, I’m a bit more mixed about desserts—the selection isn’t always great, but I’ve never had a bad tiramisu in Italy. Meanwhile, in France, they serve pretty average and often frozen desserts.
Here in Belgium, escalope fiorentine is often associated with a tomato sauce with spinach, tomato sauce, and parmesan—maybe it’s a parmigiana? Otherwise, I think it’d be great if we created a thread where everyone shares a family recipe (those are the best recipes, I find ^^)
Pasta costs between 7 and 13 €, meats start at a minimum of 10 €, 2 or 3 € for a side dish, 4 or 5 € for dessert, and 2 € for the cover charge. That adds up to around 27–28 € for a meal, not including wine. It’s a far cry from the tourist menus for under 15 € you’ll find in the historic center and Trastevere.
Tiramisu is the quintessential tourist dessert. Invented about thirty years ago by a restaurateur from Treviso and popularized through advertising by an industrial mascarpone producer (which was also completely unknown 30 years ago), it’s a lazy, far inferior version of *zuppa inglese*. It’s easier to layer ladyfingers than bake a sponge cake, and simpler to mix mascarpone, sugar, and eggs than make a proper custard. So, the desserts you’ll find across all regions: *zuppa inglese* (with endless variations), *semifreddo* (also with countless versions), *panna cotta*, *zucotto*, *sabayon*, profiteroles, *babà*, chocolate fondants (called different names depending on the restaurant)—though I’m sure I’ve forgotten some.
You can scroll up in the discussion; I shared an example menu from a mid-range restaurant, far from high-end prices, including its desserts
I don’t know the prices for meat, but for me, if I have pasta, that’s my dish—I’m not going to have meat afterward. And obviously, it wasn’t a touristy restaurant given the neighborhood...
I agree that the really cheap menus for tourists are "garbage"—same in Paris, where you find menus for 12 €, but it’s all frozen food. It does the job in a pinch, but don’t expect to eat *well*... That said, you *can* eat well for cheap in Paris with some great tips, just like in Rome.
I’m not sure if tiramisu is the "tourist dessert," though—it’s still the one you find everywhere in Italy, even in the smallest restaurants. And I’ll admit, I love it when it’s homemade! For 4 €, it was simply divine and huge—we shared it, and with the pasta, it was enough unless you eat like an ogre 😛
The pasta was really good too—proof you don’t need to go to some pretentious restaurant to eat well!
Oh, and no cover charge, which I think has been banned in Rome... though you still find it sometimes!
Clearly, in Rome, you avoid restaurants in the touristy areas (which are huge, so it’s tricky when you don’t know the city).
L'escalope milanaise is an Austrian dish originally
that's right...🙂
in Austria, they call it Wiener Schnitzel or something like that...am I wrong?
Then, when it comes to Italian food, it's true that Italy feels very far from France—Turin is as far from Chambéry as Paris is from Papeete. I think Italian cuisine is underrated, personally.🙂
Apart from that, you can find Italian delis in French cities.
Otherwise, Mr. Giorgio13, not everyone in Italy speaks Italian... there are also German speakers, especially in South Tyrol/Alto Adige, I think. The famous mountaineer Reinhold Messner is... Italian.
And I bet he prefers kartoffeln salat over Osso Bucco.
with the name of the restaurant, we could check TripAdvisor to see where the reviews come from. Personally, I don’t consider a place cheap if an appetizer, main course, and dessert add up to nearly 30 € without wine. The best restaurants (and thus the most expensive in Rome) are mostly outside the tourist areas. For example, check out the 120 or 130 restaurants recommended by the Accademia Italiana della Cucina www.accademiaitalianacucina.it/...tato_nazione_...
I talked about the regions, and obviously I didn’t mention them all. I don’t know what people eat in South Tyrol, but even the restaurants with typical cuisine are still pretty influenced by standard Italian cooking.
As for whether Wiener Schnitzel is Austrian, I have no idea and I’m not getting into that kind of argument. That said, a 12th-century Italian text does mention a breaded veal cutlet—but there might be older Austrian texts...
They speak Arpitan (also known as Franco-Provençal), which linguists consider a distinct language. It was also the language of French-speaking Switzerland before the elites imposed French. French is only used in writing and education. I once chatted with a Valdôtain who told me that among native Valdôtains, they speak Arpitan with people they know and Italian with strangers.
For me, an expensive restaurant is when pasta costs 15 €. 13 € for a seafood and truffle pasta dish—I don’t think that’s expensive. To me, pasta dishes are full meals. Anyway, I haven’t seen pasta for less than 7-8 € in Rome, and in the tourist center, it’s often more.
Pour ceux que ça interesse, voici un lien vers les 41 meilleures pizzerie d'italie selon le guide gastronomique gambero rosso perso, il me semble qu'aller en…
Voici ma recette des "Penne all'arrabbiata": La préparation est très rapide, et c'est délicieux. Faire revenir 3 échalottes émincées dans pas mal d'huile…
Ciao les Italien (ne)s du forum et autres immigré (e)s en Italie, et spécialistes de la cuisine italienne! Une question bête, mais qui a son importance (toute…
Hi there, we’re heading to Cagliari for one night in April, staying at a hotel without a restaurant. Would you happen to know of a restaurant near Via Giuseppe Garibaldi for a typical dinner that’s not too pricey? Thanks.
I’m looking for typical Catalan restaurants in Barcelona! Any suggestions for areas or little hidden spots?
I know to avoid places like La Rambla, the beachfront restaurants in Barceloneta, and anywhere where they greet you with a menu asking if you want to eat, but are there any specific restaurants to avoid? Any bad experiences or unpleasant surprises?
I’m heading to Barcelona in early May—it’s my first time there. I’d love to hear your suggestions for restaurants (ideally near the tourist center, Las Ramblas). That said, I’m happy to travel if needed. I’m looking for a place renowned for its gastronomy, a spot serving typical Spanish or Catalan food, or somewhere with a unique vibe you wouldn’t normally find... In short, which restaurant did you love most during your stay in Barcelona?
Maybe you already use it in your recipes? Just to let you know that here in Quebec, the maple water harvest has started in several regions. The next step will be to boil this water to turn it into syrup. A sweet nectar, it works well in salad dressings, desserts, with salmon, and more. 😋
If you ever pass through here, don’t miss the chance to visit one of our wonderful sugar shacks. You can taste maple taffy on snow, among other things. 😄
Do you drink wine with your meal, and how often—every day, just on weekends, or only occasionally for special events?
What are your favorite wines, from which country, and what grape variety?
I drink wine with my evening meal every day. I’m particularly fond of wines from Australia and Spain—I really like grape varieties like Cabernet Sauvignon and Shiraz.
Leaving in 15 days for Brittany, specifically the southern Finistère and Bénodet...
Tourists expected to boost the culinary restaurant industry!
Haven’t read the guide for latecomers yet, and I’m really wary of online reviews.
Where can I eat without getting ripped off, enjoy quality food—crêperies, seafood, nice atmosphere...
Thanks to all you savvy foodies!
Top 15 Brazilian eating habits that surprise the French 😮
Brazil is a multicultural country, and its history has shaped a very unique cuisine, influenced by European, African, Japanese, and Indigenous traditions. Its food culture is quite different from what we’re used to in France, and Brazilian eating habits often surprise French travelers exploring the land of samba and soccer.
We live in Réunion and we're looking for places where we can learn to cook authentic Réunionese Creole cuisine.
We're based in Saint-Denis and are searching in that area.
Après l'âpre débat "Paella, avec ou sans chorizo ?", je vous propose de disserter sur le thème de "Gazpacho ou Salmorejo ?".
Suggestion de Hannnnah qui voulait torpiller le post Paella... 🤪
N.B.: On évitera de de divaguer vers des choses baptisées "gaspacho", genre "revisité", du type "gaspacho de courgette"...
Le gazpacho connaît une grande notoriété, assez récente d'ailleurs, au point de se retrouver en "briques" dans les supermarchés (alors "Gaspacho", avec S).
Le salmorejo est beaucoup moins connu, sans doute parce que ce mot est imprononçable par un non-hispanophone, au même titre que, par exemple, relojería...
Le gazpacho, comme la paella, peut être fait de multiples façons. Lorsqu'on circule en Espagne, on ne déguste jamais deux fois le même, d'un restaurant à l'autre. Les composants varient, la texture varie, du plus fluide au plus épais, avec ou sans "garniture". Toujours délicieux.
Pour le salmorejo, en revanche, il n'y a qu'une seule recette, et la voici, en copié/collé sur le post suivant.
En ces temps de confinement, il devient assez difficile de voyager.
Mais il nous reste encore cependant une façon de voyager : la table !
C'est pourquoi j'ai eu l'idée de cette nouvelle discussion. Vous qui avez voyagé, vous avez très certainement ramené de vos voyages des recettes qui vous ont plu et qu'il vous arrive de refaire chez vous, avec les moyens du bord, parce qu'elles ont ce petit goût inimitable de voyage.
Amis internautes, je vous invite ici à nous faire partager vos meilleures recettes. A vos claviers !
bonjour,
avec mon épouse on envisage 4 jours à LONDRES....début septembre
j'ai peur de mal manger c'est pourquoi je vous sollicite pour trouver des restaurants
qui font une cuisine étrangère de qualité à des prix corrects???
je pense prendre un hôtel proche du centre: est ce que je peux trouver ce type de restaurant ou est ce qu'il est préférable de se déplacer dans des quartiers en métro pour trouver???
merci: PS 1er voyage en ANGLETERRE...donc j'ai peut être des préjugés???
les restaurants pour touristes en FRANCE faut faire gaffe ...de moins en moins qui cuisinent eux-mêmes donc les ANGLAIS??? je sais pas quoi penser???
merci
Bonjour je suis en train de préparer notre voyage à l île maurice je préfère m organiser à l avance et regarder de près tous les petits détails
Donc je souhaite connaître les très bons restaurants pour manger en couple à flic en flac et sur le reste de l ile tout en restant sur des restaurants typique de l ile
Je vous remercie
je viens de découvrir le resto roumain à Bordeaux (il y qu'un seul, d'après ce que j'ai compris)
je serais curieux d'avoir votre avis sur la cuisine roumaine. si vous la connaissez déjà je voudrais savoir votre opinions, et si vous n'avez jamais goûté je voudrais savoir quelles sont vos attentes, a quoi vous pensez si vous voyez en flânant sur les rues de vos villes "Resto roumain", est-ce que vous allez entrer ou non?
je voudrais savoir aussi, à part votre réponse, qu'est-ce que vos ami(e) pourraient penser de cette cuisine roumaine, et cela pour se former une idée plus générale.
je lance ce thread parce que j'ai l'impression qu'on est un peu réticents. serai-t-il "étrangère" ou "roumaine" qui est à la base de cette réticence?
bien sur, je peux me tromper, c'est seulement mon avis, suite à des discussion avec Marga, la patronne de ce resto, et suite à des discussion avec mes collègues, qui, la plus part d'eux, seront plus intéressés par une pizza que essayer ce resto.
En ces temps de confinement (ou de dé.........) , nous nous remémorons nos voyages passés. Que vous en reste-t-il côté culinaire?
Je reprends là un document qui m'a été communiqué par un TO avec qui je voyage en Ethiopie. Il décrit parfaitement le plat national , digeste ou indigeste , que l'on mangera forcément lors d'un passage là bas.
En Ethiopie, encore plus qu’ailleurs, le repas tient du moment de convivialité et de partage. Ici, manger ne se conçoit ni seul, ni sans Injera. Lors de votre séjour, il vous sera impossible de ne pas goûter, ne serait-ce qu’une fois à cette large crêpe légèrement fermentée et véritable plat national.
L’hôte dispose le plat, tapissé au fond d’une épaisse injera, au milieu de la tablée de convives puis dépose sur la galette légèrement acidulée légumes, sauces, viandes. Chacun des invités déchire un petit bout de la crêpe pour récolter les accompagnements en petit tas et les porte à sa bouche. Il vous faut bien entendu oublier que votre main gauche existe et ne vous servir que de la droite.
Les garnitures terminées, il vous reste encore à déguster, tous ensemble, l’injera imprégnée de la saveur des mets engloutis. Vous l’aurez compris l’injera sert tout à la fois d’aliment, de récipient et de couverts.
Pour obtenir cette galette spongieuse qui vous laissera sur le palais cette sensation aigrelette et subtilement amère unique, il vous faut combiner farine de teff et eau. Pour obtenir la fermentation souhaitée et idéale de cette pâte, on ajoute un liquide jaune clair appelé ersho. Ce processus peut durer jusqu’à trois jours avant la cuisson.
Le Teff, une céréale très ancienne …
Le teff, principal ingrédient de cette spécialité culinaire, est une céréale inconnue des régions occidentales. Cette graine endémique et sans gluten possède des vertus nutritives prodigieuses. Hautement nourrissante, elle contient 15 % de protéines, 3 % de matières grasses et 82 % de glucides complexes. Extrêmement riche en fer, le teff renferme vingt fois plus de calcium que le blé ou l’orge. Source infinie de fibres alimentaires, cette céréale apporte aussi à l’organisme une grande quantité d’autres minéraux dont l’organisme a besoin tels le manganèse, le phosphore, le magnésium, le cuivre… De plus, le teff compte un autre petit miracle à son actif, puisqu’il contient de la levure symbiotique, ce qui signifie qu'aucune n'a besoin d'être ajoutée pendant la préparation de l'injera.
Mais au grand avenir
Heureuse ironie du sort, la culture du teff, une des plus anciennes de l’humanité se révèle une de celles promises au plus grand avenir. Avec ses nombreux apports nutritifs, la connaissance du teff s’est largement répandue chez les végétariens et les vegans du monde entier. Depuis longtemps, les personnes tenues de suivre un régime sans gluten l ‘ont adopté. D’ailleurs, les éthiopiens obtiennent avec l’injera les deux tiers des protéines journalières lors du jeûne orthodoxe durant lequel il ne faut consommer aucun produit animal. Alors, si votre hôte en signe de respect, de bienvenue, d’affection porte lui-même la première part du repas à votre bouche selon la tradition du « guscha », ne soyez ni surpris ni offusqué et pensez que les meilleurs athlètes éthiopiens ont été élevés ainsi "
A vous maintenant de nous faire connaître les spécialités culinaires dégustées lors de vos voyages. On s'en lèche les babines par avance.
"
Nous partons au mois d'août à Orange, Caderousse plus précisément et nous voulions connaître un peu la région sous un angle "bio/filière courte"
Est-ce que vous connaissez des producteurs de légumes bio (ou agriculture raisonnée) dans ce coin là ? Si oui, que cultivent-ils ?
Je pose la même question pour de la viande ? Ou bien, quelles sont les bonnes boucheries du coin (car je n'ai pas envie d'aller dans un hypermarché pour acheter du tout venant). ?
Faute de clients grâce au corona et avec des loyers pharamineux à payer, j'ai le grand regret de vous informer que les fameux restaurant Porte d'Annam et A la folie à Hanoi sont définitivement fermés. Les trois autres restaurants de Didier Corlou, Madame Hien et La Verticale à Hanoi et le Co Mai à Hoi An rouvrent le 1er juin
Bonjours..... a tous ceux qui prenne l'apéritif avant le repas....🙂
Je recherche pour me confectionner un " Perroquet " une marque de menthe thaïe ou équivalente a la notre ....Ainsi qu' un endroits/magasin ou grande surface dans la province de Chaiyaphum ou je peux acheter du Ricard ou du Pastis....😛
Bonjour,
Étant réunionnais je cherche une plantation de fraise pour cuisiner un gâteau ? Connaissez vous le gâteau fraise - mélisse ? Et la plage à marée basse c ok ? 🙂
Bonjour,
Petit voyage culinaire à Montmartre, j'ai mangé dans un resto Venezuelien et depuis j'ai déjà essayé 2fois d'en faire mais j'y arrive pas, alors si quelqu'un a une recette de la pâte a arepa je l'a prend avec plaisirs.
Dans la région de Baracoa (Yumuri) à une certaine saison , du rio remonte en direction de la mer à la pleine lune des poches chargés d'alevin de poisson .
C'est un met délicat
Les villageois les pechent font secher les TETIS sur des plaques de tole
C' est un met délicat, ne pas hesiter de demander à vos propriétaires de vous en cuisiner
Impossible de parler de tradition culinaire et de cuisine au Laos sans évoquer le Laap Kaï ! On vous en proposera dans tous les restaurants laotiens.
Il existe différentes variétés de Laap : Laap Kai au poulet, Laap Sinh à la viande, Laap Pet au canard, Laap Pa au poisson...
Le Laap pourrait se traduire par "salade à la viande (ou au poisson) et aux herbes".
C'est un plat complet, sain et économique particulièrement savoureux à cuisiner de préférence aux beaux jours !
Recette à retrouver sur mon blog https://www.heleneetlacledeschamps.fr/
Aujourd'hui, je vous emmène dans les cuisines de Bali pour apprendre à cuisiner le Mie Goreng.
Une recette simple à base de nouilles sautées accompagnées de légumes, d'une petite omelette coupée en lamelles et de morceaux de poulet ou de crevettes.
Le Mie Goreng (Mie signifie nouille) et le Nasi Goreng (Nasi signifie riz) sont deux plats incontournables durant un séjour à Bali.
Bon appétit !
https://www.heleneetlacledeschamps.fr/a-table/mie-goreng-bali/
J’ai découvert le Dal Bhat à Kathmandou lorsque je faisais une mission de congé solidaire auprès de l’association WCN (Worldlife Conservation of Nepal).
C'est « le plat national du Népal » qui se consomme à toute heure de la journée et qui est servi à volonté dans tous les restaurants…
"Dal" signifie riz et "Bhat" bouillon de lentilles.
C’est un plat riche au niveau nutritif, sain et économique composé de riz, d'un bouillon de lentilles, d'un curry de légumes et d'achards.
Vous pouvez aussi l'accompagner de viande si vous souhaitez une version non végétarienne.
Vous trouverez la recette traditionnelle du Dal Bhat sur mon blog de voyage et cuisines du monde "Hélène et la Clé des Champs" :
https://www.heleneetlacledeschamps.fr/a-table/recettes/recette-dal-bhat-nepal/
A défaut de pouvoir voyager, je vous invite à faire un tour dans les cuisines du monde.
Aujourd'hui, je vous propose une recette de momos au poulet.
Les momos sont originaires du Tibet, mais ont franchi les frontières pour faire complètement partie de la culture gastronomique du Népal et de l'Inde. C'est au Népal que j'ai dégusté mes premiers momos alors que j'effectuais un congé solidaire à Kathmandou et, c'est dans le nord-est de l'Inde dans la région de Darjeeling que j'ai appris à les cuisiner dans la famille de mon amie Karishma.
Vous pouvez remplacer le poulet par d’autres viandes ou du poisson ou en faire une version végétarienne.
Vous trouverez la recette détaillée des momos au poulet sur mon blog "Hélène et la Clé des Champs"
https://www.heleneetlacledeschamps.fr/a-table/momos-poulet-nepal-inde/
Bonjour
Nous partons en Grèce en septembre et j aimerai visiter une fabrique de feta... dans une ferme de préférence... J ai cherché sur internet mais je n'ai rien trouvé. Auriez vous une adresse ??? D avance merci
Bonne journée
De mon voyage en Indonesie d'il y a quelques temps déjà, j'ai gardé un très très bon souvenir de poissons grillés à Jimbaran.
C'est peut-être le fait de déambuler dans le marché au poisson, d'y avoir acheté un bon red snapper et de l'avoir fait cuire dans une des gargottes situées jusqu'à côté... Ou encore de l'avoir dégusté à même la plage en contemplant le coucher de soleil... 😊
Bref, j'aimerais retrouver la saveur de ce poisson grillé. Est-ce que quelqu'un connaîtrait la recette ? Dans mes souvenirs, le poisson était cuit sur la braise mais badigeonné en permanence par les cuistots. Il était servi avec du riz et je pense du sambal de tomate...
Bicerin: chocolate at the bottom, then coffee, and finally whipped cream
